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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[New structures] Mooring and docking features

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John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#181 - 2015-03-24 12:52:12 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The idea for the mooring capabilities are that they are configurable and have a finite limit, so multiple structures will be required to house particularly large fleets." Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure.


So what happens if I log on to the same mooring slot as someone else who is logged in? Two ships occupying the same space at the same time usually results in the mother of all bumps.

Honestly, first Sov changes, then vague references to Super nerfs, now this? Is there actually any joined up thinking going on inside CCP at the moment because it looks like you're all working on your own ideas rather than to a broader long term plan for the game.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
GsyBoy
Doomheim
#182 - 2015-03-24 13:02:16 UTC
Love the changes, very inventive and good looking, obviously a lot of work done on them.

However very hard to comment at the moment due to the missing information. At the moment i would rather logoff in a safe than on these structures. Really need the whole picture on capital/super capitals before anyone can make any meaningful comments and suggestions imo.

https://www.twitch.tv/gsyboy
WarFireV
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2015-03-24 13:08:34 UTC
Pretty much from what I have read this whole topic boils down to not having enough information on what CCP is actually trying to do here.

The concept of Mooring, that has been presented thru far, is just way to inferior to the current POS force field system as well as the safe log off system. Till that time that we are given more information, this topic will just go on in circles.
Sootsia
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#184 - 2015-03-24 13:15:32 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Super Capitals as they have always been are for the most part a corporate asset as opposed to personal. As such by having the visible it makes sense - it says "I am here, attack me". Basically it gives the opportunity to find areas where large amount of caps are stored and target them directly in order to take down the alliance in question. It also allows for a realistic ability to gather intelligence on what that alliances capabilities are.




WTF are you sniffing, or koolaide your drinking.... Does a CORP train the skills? Does a CORP Fly the ship? NO....a Individual MEMBER trains and flies what he /she has earned through much, much hard work and effort. For someone else to even THINK that my hard work (the ship) is rendered into a corporation asset, that can be moved, used, lost, logged , or in any manner controlled by by a corporation or alliance is ludicrous and insane. I as the PILOT am the corporation and or alliance asset, not my very personal ships.....

The only exception to that is where a corporation builds for the corporation said supers in like manners as carriers and dreadnoughts, and stores them in like manner, available for corp members usage.
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#185 - 2015-03-24 13:28:05 UTC
Sootsia wrote:


The only exception to that is where a corporation builds for the corporation said supers in like manners as carriers and dreadnoughts, and stores them in like manner, available for corp members usage.


Which can't be achieved if you remove CSMA structures. Mooring as a means of docking for ships too large to physically fit inside the station is a great idea. Mooring as a replacement for POS is the stupidest thing out of CCP in the last year. I truly believe CCP needs to put a hold on the entire sov overhaul and develop an internal blueprint that everyone is working to because right now, because right now none of these 'proposals' work. If you're going to effect the gameplay of thousands of your customers - and let's be clear here, we are your customers more than we are 'players' or 'members of the community' then you need to have a long term workable plan in place, not some vague notion of 'player's controlling their environment'. Come back to us when all these different teams have joined up thinking and there's a solid road map in place you can share with us.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
Cpt Patrick Archer
I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#186 - 2015-03-24 13:31:31 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Another element i want to throw in here is the idea of soft mooring which works a bit like the current POS shield so you can still move around and use dscan etc within range of the structure but you cannot target anything and you are invulnerable.

It is basically an area invulnerability effect around the station like a remote rep or similar. It allows you to warp to 0 or undock into relative safety.

You can of course be bumped unless you do a hard mooring or dock up.

Thoughts?


Why don't leave the shield and pos in? This will probably lead to playing the 'station game' with supers. I like the idea, but without clear indications (like a visible shield) it cause issues or make it unclear if a (super)cap is soft moored or hard moored.

I think this is an interesting idea though, and don't want to shoot it down straight away.
GsyBoy
Doomheim
#187 - 2015-03-24 13:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: GsyBoy
Quote:
WTF are you sniffing, or koolaide your drinking.... Does a CORP train the skills? Does a CORP Fly the ship? NO....a Individual MEMBER trains and flies what he /she has earned through much, much hard work and effort. For someone else to even THINK that my hard work (the ship) is rendered into a corporation asset, that can be moved, used, lost, logged , or in any manner controlled by by a corporation or alliance is ludicrous and insane. I as the PILOT am the corporation and or alliance asset, not my very personal ships.....

The only exception to that is where a corporation builds for the corporation said supers in like manners as carriers and dreadnoughts, and stores them in like manner, available for corp members usage.


This is a valid point (without caps, maybe use ‘quotes’, less shouty :-p), which even though CCP have assured us that our hard work will not be for nothing, needs to be explained to the high sec guy who doo lvl 4 missions for 10-20 million of ISK per hour.

For the supercarrier pilot, even if the supercarrier/pilot was (part) plexed, a lot of effort have gone into acquiring, keeping safe and flying one. We do not have them given to us, mostly, and the skills acquired to fly them perfectly takes years. Acquiring them for most pilots has taken ISK spent on defending their sov, ISK made (and lost) earning the money and constant effort to keep them safe.

Even with the supers given out by corp, probably means that you have put all the logistically time in to keep a corp functional and thriving like moons, PI, refulelling poses, FC’ing for the enjoyment of many other people, IT services, etc, etc.

These are not cheap and, no fear according to CCP, should not be nerfed and pushed back into pointless objects. The current eve system has promoted them, created them to the level they are at and they are identified to be one of the many end game acquisitions.

https://www.twitch.tv/gsyboy
grumpychops
The Farting Unicorns
#188 - 2015-03-24 14:51:33 UTC
I had originally put this idea in the main structures thread, but I think it may belong here. It does involve mooring.


The new structures cause issues for 2 ships in particular, the Rorqual and the Titan.

This is because both ships have roles that were previously made feasible with POS shields (bridging and sieging).

The new structure mechanics appear to tip the risk/reward assessment away from these roles being feasible (see the 400+ comments above for explanations)

Solution: Add a mobile shield structure.

- While the structure has a shield effect for visual purposes, the structure uses a mooring mechanic.
- This mechanic limits the number of ships allowed to simultaneously use the structure.
- This allows the server to properly log its use.

- The structure could use the current mechanics based on size for the other structures.

- The shields could be online and offlined. When online, the structure's fuel consumption peaks drastically. Perhaps providing only 4-6 hours of continuous shield use.

- Shields must be offline to refuel.

- Structure may be online only in space where you own Sov.

- You have no ability to activate active modules or project DPS from the structure.

- Modules like the Industrial Core and the Jump Portal Generator to function.
Rothana Haldane
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2015-03-24 14:56:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rothana Haldane
Mooring should only be allowed on stations as the stations shields should be able to extend and protect the ships moored to it. But you need to make a limit on how many titans/supers can be moored at a time to a specific station type. Having 200 titans moored to a Minmitar station is well, awkward? Even 20, but 20 moored to the Gallante admin tower would not be too hard, Also need to break it down to say 10 titans 10 supers mooring points. To make it even more fun and well profitable, charge a mooring fee, kinda like renting an office Now if you design new stations specifically for Supers/titans to be moored that would be great also. (I think of Deep Space 9 when you talk of mooring points on stations) This can also be part of the change where you would allow multiple stations in a system or to the Personal Stargate building you have been talking about adding.
Alstevar Eastern
Caldari State
#190 - 2015-03-24 15:03:30 UTC
To have efficient mooring why not have a specific placements around when you build a structure with that ?


A visual mode with cylindric grid or other forms around the structure where you set up what is available for mooring (a tractor beam move the ship at the available space like a lot of good ideas on this thread).

You can't build structures too close without remove allowed mooring placements each time but you can monitoring how much ships you can have around.

Specific structures just for mooring can be good too.


I see interesting proposals from GeeShizzle MacCloud.

Your effective personal standings need to be higher to see the player's signature.
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#191 - 2015-03-24 15:50:02 UTC
can we defend our new structrures with some extra guns?
Besides the 4 or 8 you can put on a structure?
Perhaps this could be tied into a new small structure that comes in different sized and types?
Could be helpful for those not in 100 man corporations with pilots online 24/7. P
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2015-03-24 16:09:27 UTC
Janeway84 wrote:
can we defend our new structrures with some extra guns?
Besides the 4 or 8 you can put on a structure?
Perhaps this could be tied into a new small structure that comes in different sized and types?
Could be helpful for those not in 100 man corporations with pilots online 24/7. P


Alternatively can we anchor a bunch of deathstars around it
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#193 - 2015-03-24 17:17:36 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Another element i want to throw in here is the idea of soft mooring which works a bit like the current POS shield so you can still move around and use dscan etc within range of the structure but you cannot target anything and you are invulnerable.

It is basically an area invulnerability effect around the station like a remote rep or similar. It allows you to warp to 0 or undock into relative safety.

You can of course be bumped unless you do a hard mooring or dock up.

Thoughts?


I would support this. I must admit I was concerned about how warping to the structure during a firefight would be affected. Currently freighters can warp into a POS during a war dec and warp out in relative safety (assuming they have good bookmarks and such). While I would love to just butcher anyone who warps to a structure I'm attacking, I don't really think it would be all that fair. Something like this could fix that.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#194 - 2015-03-24 17:19:15 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:




  • Having (super)capitals visible from space, even if invulnerable to direct assault, is going a huge intelligence boost to opposing forces.
  • Having (super)capitals traceable in such a manner could allow third parties to ambush (super)capital pilots as soon as they remove moorings to destroy the ships before they can escape.
  • Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure.




Make supers cloaked when they "Moor" = no free intel.



This is effectively just docking supers, protection with no intel is the same as docking, but maybe it's time to allow that?



I like the idea of seeing a whole fleet of supers docked at a staging structure. Would be a glorious sight to behold. The free intel is a bit of a concern though.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Felter Echerie
Profit Prophets
#195 - 2015-03-24 19:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Felter Echerie
+1 for treating huge ships as huge ships....
Felter Echerie
Profit Prophets
#196 - 2015-03-24 19:41:08 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Moored ships should not appear on D-Scan. Smile

if said station has ........... station service and|or ......... station rig ;)
Felter Echerie
Profit Prophets
#197 - 2015-03-24 19:59:52 UTC
let us dock in wh space! stop this nonsense!
Alexis Nightwish
#198 - 2015-03-24 20:10:08 UTC
Querns wrote:
CCP seems pretty adamant about removing force fields. I would begin to shape your understanding around this critical fact.

You sure? Check out the 8th one down here.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

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Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#199 - 2015-03-24 20:54:47 UTC
Someone help me if I'm wrong,

From what I've seen on the Dev-blog, certain structures will allow anchoring (does that mean mooring?), others not. Some will allow docking and anchoring (mooring?).

Generally the ones that allow anchoring/docking also have high slots available.

As far as I can tell, you can equip guns to the high slots of these structures, so...

I'm supposing that if a group is able enough to launch one of these larger structures, and fit guns to it, and moor their supers at it, then that structure will be able to blap bubbles that are anchored in their general vicinity, and will also shoot at bad guys that are trying to camp in a super.

I feel like this point hasn't been brought up in the conversation yet, so I wanted to mention it. If I've missed something big, please fill me in. On the other hand, if I've got a decent grasp of this, then the only real issue left is the intel issue still under discussion.

Cedric
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#200 - 2015-03-24 21:33:48 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Another element i want to throw in here is the idea of soft mooring which works a bit like the current POS shield so you can still move around and use dscan etc within range of the structure but you cannot target anything and you are invulnerable.

It is basically an area invulnerability effect around the station like a remote rep or similar. It allows you to warp to 0 or undock into relative safety.

You can of course be bumped unless you do a hard mooring or dock up.

Thoughts?

I believe this would be a bad idea.

If you are going to throw out POSes for the new structures: if a ship is docked or in a docking/undocking sequence, they are safe from attack. If a Ship is moored or in the mooring/unmorring sequence, it should be safe from attack. But outside that, they should be fully exposed.

Perhaps a functionality of the new structures should include access to DSCAN while docked or moored. It would make sense that a station would have scanning equipment and further sense that in a Player owned Station environment that they could gain access to that data. Perhaps a permission level set up?

Overall, I love the idea that larger ships can moor and that to a limit which would require multiple structures to act as a harbor and haven the larger the fleet becomes.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

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