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[New structures] Assembly Array and Research Laboratories

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Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#21 - 2015-03-23 14:20:18 UTC
As far as I understood during presentation:

The new structures are something like a placeholder and their functionality will be defined by what you put into the service slots?

So I place a Assembly Array and plug a Small Ship Assembly Array into a service slot to produce small ship hulls?
Devblog: "One module will be required for the manufacturing of each category mentioned above."

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67008/1/Structure_ISIS5-01.png
Assembly Array Medium offers me 0 (zero) service slots.

Fail to see why I would place a Medium Assembly Array to produce "nothing".

Currently: A small control tower will enable me to online: ammunition array, small ship array, components array, equipment array - to continue what I am doing now I will have to use a large Assembly Array.

I do haul compressed ore to the production POS and online the reprocessing array... as far as I understand I'd need a Reprocessing Service which will only get its full bonus when fitted to a Drilling Platform (with reprocessing rigs). And my research lab researching BPOs I don't need right now would require a Laboratory if I'm interested in getting boni.
So instead of a small POS for small business I'll end up having a large Assembly Array + large Extraction Center + Large Research Center. To be honest: That sounds expensive. Hopefully it will keep new players out of manufacturing/research, less competition is appreciated.

Details needed...

Vulnerable to Entosis Link: Wardec needed (highsec)? "Prime-Time" (high/low/nullsec/wormhole)?
Vulnerable to damage: Hitpoints? Reinforcement timers?
Consume Fuel when in use: What kind of fuel? Fuelblocks are racial, those new arrays doesn't seem to be racial?
Skills: A shitload of new skills needed depending on size of the structure?
Weapons: No AI - goodbye holidays and weekends?
Weapons: Starbase Defense Skill needed?

+1 for new structures... gfx looks nice... for any discussion please provide details.
Miss Iniquitous
Razing Demolitions
#22 - 2015-03-23 14:41:05 UTC
Hello, I manage 6 POS Moon Mining, running Reactions and manufacturing T2 Components all mixed together across the 6 POS in low sec.

Will I still be able to run the same or similar operation on these structures after the change?

It took me many months to acquire these moons and figure out the reaction system.

Due to the above I am anxious about the transition period.

I am certainly not looking forward to being told to unanchor all of this to replace with the new structures and mods only to continue my industry.

Will CCP replace my anchored reaction chain structures with the new ones or will I as feared have to do this myself all over again?

I definitely need more information on the transition in order to be sufficiently prepared for this. I am going to have a lot of EVE chores to do, I am not excited about this!

I am excited about these changes though!!

(Originally posted in Dev blog: Back Into Structure thread, I guess this thread is more appropriate)
Banko Mato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-03-23 15:11:23 UTC
Whatever you do, please for the love of Bob, give us unified hangars of reasonable size that we can pull materials from and direct manufacturing output to across ALL industry/science lines of a structure. It is more then frustrating to deal with hopefully undersized storage space of current assembly arrays (especially ship arrays) and having to be physically present to move intermediate materials from one array to the next, even when updating jobs from a dozen jumps away....

To provide a more detailed picture:
Imagine I produce small T2 ships (comp array, small ship array, advanced small ship array). Currently I build components and T1 ships in their respective arrays and then move their products over to the advanced small ship array for the final production phase. What I want is one central storage that I can subdivide as I see fit and then route the output of intermediate production steps to a location where the next step can easily access those materials. Being present is still required for getting initial stuff there or flying final products out, and that is fine and should be that way. But the hassle in between needs to go imho!
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#24 - 2015-03-23 15:36:08 UTC
I prefer the idea of datacores being a buildable resource, in the vein of everything in eve that is immediately usable should be allowed to be built.
Dirk Morbho
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-03-23 15:36:49 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hello people,


  • Assembly Arrays focus on manufacturing of the numerous EVE Online items, ships, modules, structures, components and etc... used in-game.




Ok so let me see if I understand the basic concept. I beg of everyone to correct my assumptions where they are fubar. Srsly. Please do so! Big smile

For example, Instead of anchoring a POS and a small ship assembly array to pump out a million rifters to throw at the enemy, I'll just anchor a small assembly platform?

I'm going to also assume these new platform won't be defenseless. I'm also going to assume the larger platforms can have more defenses. And I'm going to assume you cannot put down a large platform and build small ships. (Is that how it works now and in the future?).

Anyway... assuming all of that above, Can we have monster modular platforms' ? Say you anchor a 'monster platform' and you can add modules to it. You can put in 1 Large assembly + 1 small Or 1 Med + 1 Lab (however the math works out). This would allow people to get their smaller items made in a less risk averse settings. It'd cost them more of course, and they'd have more eggs in one basket, but there's still risk/reward ratio.

idk. just something I'm spit-balling over my coffee this morning.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-03-23 15:46:45 UTC
Droidyk wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
[quote=Spugg Galdon][quote=elitatwo][quote=Spugg Galdon]

Thus rendering research agents uttelry useless unless the number of datacores they provide is buffed accordingly, which would of course then crash the market!


That is what they are trying to achieve, agents would be removed. It has been said before.


I missed that bit :D It'll certainly achieve that goal then. I'll just have to adapt to get my datacores.
Guillome Renard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-03-23 16:15:16 UTC
I really like the directions of the new structures proposals. A lot.

What I'm concerned about, in the dev-blog-as-written are two things:

1) The attack method for the medium-sized "Assembly Platform" is 'Damage'. Not damage+reinforce like other objects, but just 'damage' like the Mobile Tractor Unit. Given the investment-nature of this structure, I just don't see anything that can be killed by a small roaming gang while you're asleep and cooking a job seeing any use.

I'd like to see more clarification on what 'damage' means, in this context, and what use cases you envision for this hardware. It looks like it's a sort of entry-level, small-scale - perhaps individual-scale - facility which I think there is definitely a demand for, but right now there's gangs going out looking for MTUs and ESS' to kill. ESS use is basically a joke anywhere I've ever seen it attempted, or the ESS is deployed as bait rather than for it's ostensible purpose: increasing ratting income.

If I'm right about the intended using audience, consider the mobile depot as a better model than the MTU?

2) Research has no medium-sized, small/personal-scale structure. This is interesting since Research is a generally done by the few, and production done by the many. I would expect the demand for the smaller scale stuff is higher. Then again, I did most of my research in a wormhole, with mobile labs in a POS.

Especially if BPOs are going to be in the line of fire, however, the meanings of 'entosis' vs 'entosis + site' are super important. Well researched BPOs are among the highest value items in the game, and putting them in jeopardy is going to be deeply chilling. (This may be why there is no small-scale research labs being planned, in fact).

tl;dr - I really need to know more about the potential risk/reward balance here.

http://fcftw.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=662501
Hafwolf
Git R Done Resources
#28 - 2015-03-23 16:17:06 UTC
Just a simple Idea on datacores. Maybe you can put a module or rig on your structure to entice certain faction data sites to be constructed in your system. The lower the sec status the more data sites are spawned. That way if you don't play or stay in system some one else has a chance to scan down the site. This also encourages more people to use the system. More research structures means more data sites spawning. It might mean that more people with center around low use systems in any sec status because they now have the opportunity to make isk.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#29 - 2015-03-23 16:21:31 UTC
so as far as 'ive heard when we want to enable a factory station to build certain items lets say ships we will have to put on the appropriate service module, when this happens are there going to be physical changes to the station for putting on this service module like a visable shipyard of appropriate size i.e a capital yard appearing on the side and the like since we can already see what someone is using various POS's for now just by looking at the structures in it and i think it would be a good idea to keep that sort of intel gathering open.
Lady Omanor
The Mining and Manufacturing Corporation
The Imperial Union
#30 - 2015-03-23 16:26:53 UTC
Could you please state, where the different sizes of Assembly Arrays and Research Laboratories can be deployed,
because i think it is a little unclear in the dev blog.

High-sec
Low-sec
Null-sec
Wormhole space
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-03-23 16:34:26 UTC
will different structures use different fuel? what will happen with stront?

SSC Brokering Service
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#32 - 2015-03-23 16:35:33 UTC
I'm still not a fan of the idea of datacores just being spawned in random containers or some such-not. As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong), datacores all have corresponding science skills. Instead of simply 'spawning' them from a specific structure, a player could use their science skills to create the datacores.

Set it up so that a single player can have up to five lines, and switch the Research Project Management skill from allowing +1 research agent to +1 datacore lines, and let players create the datacores themselves using the structure and their science skills, with higher science skills yielding more datacores. It could roughly follow the current agent levels (science skill at level 1 would be akin to having a level 1 agent) for output (though, it would probably need a bit of a boost, depending on how much fuel the structure cost and how much it cost to build).

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Hafwolf
Git R Done Resources
#33 - 2015-03-23 16:41:06 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
I'm still not a fan of the idea of datacores just being spawned in random containers or some such-not. As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong), datacores all have corresponding science skills. Instead of simply 'spawning' them from a specific structure, a player could use their science skills to create the datacores.

Set it up so that a single player can have up to five lines, and switch the Research Project Management skill from allowing +1 research agent to +1 datacore lines, and let players create the datacores themselves using the structure and their science skills, with higher science skills yielding more datacores. It could roughly follow the current agent levels (science skill at level 1 would be akin to having a level 1 agent) for output (though, it would probably need a bit of a boost, depending on how much fuel the structure cost and how much it cost to build).


Really good idea.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#34 - 2015-03-23 17:26:22 UTC
Querns wrote:
Would it be possible to start jobs inside the new structures, then pack up the entire structure, move it, then redeploy and finish the jobs?

Such thing should not be possible.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#35 - 2015-03-23 17:29:57 UTC
Quote:
Research Laboratories are dedicated to blueprint research (ME, TE), blueprint copying, Tech II and Tech III blueprint invention, and datacore spawning.

"Datacore spawning" would replace RP agents and the rate of spawning would be based on the skill same as for amount of RP agents.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Rose Honey
Small Holdings Inc.
#36 - 2015-03-23 18:30:46 UTC
How do these changes effect the skills for building small medium and so on. Are they still going to count or are they going to get boiled down into 1 skill?

As it looks as if theres only 1 arrary for building instead of the Many Many(RIP Terry) there are now.

Also will this mean I can build Caps in highsec outside of NPC stations? As building my own Charon pretty costly in the npc station.
Alexis Nightwish
#37 - 2015-03-23 18:34:38 UTC
Feedback:

"one way of doing so would be to have Datacore caches spawn near the Research Laboratory that refill at various intervals. Those caches could be set to be looted by anyone, but with a specific tax set up by the structure owners."

I can see this being gamed by setting the tax really high (like 100m per datacore) then refunding that tax to members, while denying 'theft' to any roaming scallywags.


Questions:
What will happen to reactions?

With datacores being player-made, are there plans to either totally overhaul the loot tables of data sites, or just remove data sites all together (and refund SP)? Because the data site loot tables are total garbage. I don't even equip a data analyzer because they just aren't worth the time. This is K-space pirate data sites and W-space sleeper data sites.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-03-23 18:39:22 UTC
Ulrik Elristan wrote:
fluffy jo wrote:
Love the new structure idea.

Coming from a POS industry point of view.

(wall of whine)



Are you gonna psot this on EACH AND EVERY POST ?
Seriously...


Ignoring text is hard yo. Good thing you tore him a new ******* instead of simply not reading it again.
SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#39 - 2015-03-23 20:29:07 UTC
I don't like the datacore spawning as it's suggested, that's like the loot spew in exploration which was bad and you removed it.

I really like the idea of datacore mining, but I'm afraid that that would get out of hand pretty quickly, we'd need objects for every kind of datacore and there are a lot of different kinds of data cores. Still, this would be my prefered method.

I would appreciate it if it was something people had to go out in space for and do something, not just scoop it up like the current proposal is. Think more like a mission or a site than like PI product pick up.

If you want to tie the "mining" to the research labs, you could take the Kerbal Space Program approach and just collect "science" from sciency objects in space and refine that in the labs, datacore output depending on how you set up the lab.


I'm not really sure how the new manufacturing changes are meant?

One assembly line of a type for each module fitted to the structure? Like ammunition or ships or modules etc.

Will this mean there will no longer be a "one size fits all" line?

Because that could be a pain, I'm making diverse stuff, depending on the day and what sold out and it would inconvenience everyone greatly if I or my corp had to switch out modules all the time.

The same really applies to the research labs as well. Will we end up with the corresponding number of labs or assembly arrays, fully fitted with one type of assembly line/research type, just because that's the only way to manage the mess?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this


Finally, how is ownership determined? Can they be shot and killed or taken over with the Entosis link?
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#40 - 2015-03-23 21:16:03 UTC
I like the structure idea in general a whole lot and should shake up things nicely, while making use of your space a fun affair.

There are however some points that have some concern and that is mainly that it's not known if Medium sized Assembly and Research structures have a reinforcement timer, or can be killed in one go. If it's the latter they will be useless.

I also think that the datacore spawning in cans is kinda uninspired. It would be much better game wise to have Data Sites spawn items of different grades that you can have processed in a research structure to receive Datacores. The processing of datacores takes time and will use a new production line for your character, using the skill that is now in use by Research Agents. Creating the need for people to run Data sites and reward them appropriately (Low and Nullsec drops are more valuable by giving more datacores per Data site item dropped).

Another more interactive option is to have the research structure produce datacores at semi random and place them in a cargo bay that can be hacked using a data analyzer and the mini game. Upon completion you get a percentage of the available datacores depending on the speed of the hack as defensive measures against the hack will secure datacores once the hack starts. Rigs can be used to increase the difficulty of the hacking minigame or the speed at which datacores are secured once a breach is detected.

The owners of the structure can take the datacores from the cargo bay and just move them in another hangar or cargohold.

You should be able to anchor structures close together for more safety and usability at least the ones that don't have any service slots. If you want to run a Small or Medium Assembly Array to build Tech 2 Drones, you should be able to just Drag and Drop the blueprint copies you made in your Research Arrays to the assembly array and start building.

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