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[New structures] Mooring and docking features

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Antonia Iskarius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2015-03-23 18:35:54 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
RainReaper wrote:
[yeah. but why should it even be a risk to lose a titan or a super simply cause you left it in an array? it should be possible to leave a ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause you wanted to leave it for a little bit. i PERSONALY dont want 10 chars for everything in the game. but again its up to you guys. im just saying it should be possible to temporary leave any ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause of bad code. i just think it should be possible. building a titan is already expensive like fliping hell you know.

if I need to leave MY TITAN for 10m it's no problem, I just put up an xlsma in my altcorp or just eject after scrambling the pass and disallowing alliance entry. it's just dumb as hell to do either for more than 10m.

I left two supers docked in my CSMA for literally 6 months straight. Sure, I had to set up a personal alt corp for it and I had to log in every 3 1/'2 days to make sure it wasn't reffed, but it worked, noone every came around and ****** with it and if I needed to unsub or go on vacation I could just sit my pilots in them, safe log, and pull the CSMA down. If POS could be made personal without needing an alt corp it would solve a lot of problems. I don't like this mooring concept at all from what I've heard so far, the current system works just fine with a few tweaks.
Grapillon
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2015-03-23 18:37:05 UTC
Actually the best and most convincing idea this far:

Super Capitals represent the bridge between structures (xl) and ships. A Titan has three Modus Operandi:

1. Structure Mode:
Ships may dock, assets may be bunkered in finite quantity, exchange intelligence loss with one gain. one big target you never know what is inside. Destructible, reinforceable. Once in reinforce the titan may change anyrime back to another mode and warp off (jump drive / cloak broken until cooldown is over). An extensive onlining time avoids misuse. If destroyed same mechanic as structures.

2. logistic mode:
The ship is one big catapult (gateway) that becomes more unprecise the further the target is. The Titan itself is completely unmovable in this mode. Additionally while not activating the catapult you can freely gravel as before.

3. bonus mode:
Create wormhole like effects on the grid around the titan. These effects act on all ships, not only friendly. The erfects do not add up, only one effect per grid. This ties in with the new sov mechanic that will lead to distribution of titans among command points. The doomsday effect is nownthat around the titan a deadsoace like environment with dust appears that represent the effect. As long as this modus is active the titan is completely indestructible but can also not be used for anything, all systems shutdown. It also costs fuel.

Super Carrier have no logistics mode, reduced bonus mode and reduced structure mode. Remove all weapons and offensive capabilities. Switching between modes takes quiet some time and has a cooldown.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#103 - 2015-03-23 18:37:46 UTC
I really like the concept of mooring in the game, and especialy if it means even the biggest ships can be safely swapped, and the game does not require anymore that capital pilots stay stuck to their capital ship.

As cool as the images of moored ships can be, I do not believe the mooring capability should be represented graphically. Have the mooring berths be inside, and allow stocks of ships to be stored there as they cam be in stations or SMA but have the mooring capability increase with time and maintenance costs spent, which will make it unique and different from SMA.

After all, why not assume that every station in Eve was not a POS with a mooring facility at the beginning? This is how cities became what they are, they all started as a small village at some point.


Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2015-03-23 18:39:15 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:
Have unmooring give the same 30s (60?) invul timer as undocking.


It's one of the options we're currently thinking about.

That doesn't do a lot for someone bubbled unless they can re-moor in that timeframe.


My question is, if you are in a moored ship, would you have the outside grid loaded, or see the station interior? If it's the former, then this isn't an issue - if there's a bubble, you don't unmoor.

If, on the other hand, it's mechanically the same as docking, and all you see is the inside of the station hangar, then just let them dock.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#105 - 2015-03-23 18:41:57 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Titan bridging without pos shields? You are vulnerable when the bridge is up and unable to move. So you are in a situation where you cannot move and have no protection and since you just sent all your friends through a bridge no immediate backup. This issue needs resolving.

I don't necessarily agree, though I'm sure my alliance would disagree strenuously. :) I feel like a basic requirement to guard your titan while it's vulnerable is not a bad thing.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#106 - 2015-03-23 18:51:03 UTC
Antonia Iskarius wrote:

I left two supers docked in my CSMA for literally 6 months straight. Sure, I had to set up a personal alt corp for it and I had to log in every 3 1/'2 days to make sure it wasn't reffed, but it worked, noone every came around and ****** with it and if I needed to unsub or go on vacation I could just sit my pilots in them, safe log, and pull the CSMA down. If POS could be made personal without needing an alt corp it would solve a lot of problems. I don't like this mooring concept at all from what I've heard so far, the current system works just fine with a few tweaks.

that you did a dumb thing doesn't make it any less dumb, it just suggests that if you offer dumb options to people there is a minority who will say yes, i am tired of making good choices in life
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#107 - 2015-03-23 18:57:44 UTC
Querns wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Titan bridging without pos shields? You are vulnerable when the bridge is up and unable to move. So you are in a situation where you cannot move and have no protection and since you just sent all your friends through a bridge no immediate backup. This issue needs resolving.

I don't necessarily agree, though I'm sure my alliance would disagree strenuously. :) I feel like a basic requirement to guard your titan while it's vulnerable is not a bad thing.


Except that you just bridged your guards away.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#108 - 2015-03-23 19:00:14 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:

Except that you just bridged your guards away.

a titan bridge does not scoop everyone in the system up willy-nilly and throw them at your target against their will, some guards can stay back if necessary

don't know that it would be fun gameplay but that is not a valid criticism
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#109 - 2015-03-23 19:01:48 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:

Except that you just bridged your guards away.

a titan bridge does not scoop everyone in the system up willy-nilly and throw them at your target against their will, some guards can stay back if necessary

don't know that it would be fun gameplay but that is not a valid criticism

plus, you retain the option to batphone offline supercapitals in what is ostensibly a staging system

I can't really speak to something like erecting a pos in hostile sov and bridging out of there, though!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Rose Honey
Small Holdings Inc.
#110 - 2015-03-23 19:02:44 UTC
If the XL Stations are Twice the size of current stations. wouldn't that mean they could fit a limited number of supers?

I'm not for supers docking, but I mean, 100km station pretty big.


As for mooring, I don't think under any condition should you be allowed to Bridge or jump a Super or titan while moored. That would basically make them over powered.

Pilots should be forced to unmoor before bridging fleets into battle, as well as gain a timer before they could remoor similar to an aggression timer.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#111 - 2015-03-23 19:03:27 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:

Except that you just bridged your guards away.

a titan bridge does not scoop everyone in the system up willy-nilly and throw them at your target against their will, some guards can stay back if necessary

don't know that it would be fun gameplay but that is not a valid criticism


So the answer is you just need more people? Need enough people to cover 5 systems where SOV events are spawning and enough people to guard the titan. Sounds great if you are in a massive coalition.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-03-23 19:04:02 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:

Except that you just bridged your guards away.

a titan bridge does not scoop everyone in the system up willy-nilly and throw them at your target against their will, some guards can stay back if necessary

don't know that it would be fun gameplay but that is not a valid criticism


So the answer is you just need more people? Need enough people to cover 5 systems where SOV events are spawning and enough people to guard the titan. Sounds great if you are in a massive coalition.

Or you could abstain from bridging and take gates, if it's so inconvenient.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#113 - 2015-03-23 19:04:05 UTC
Grapillon wrote:
3. bonus mode:
Create wormhole like effects on the grid around the titan.


Glad to see I wasn't the only one considering this. It just seemed so far-fetched I didn't post it.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#114 - 2015-03-23 19:05:40 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:

So the answer is you just need more people? Need enough people to cover 5 systems where SOV events are spawning and enough people to guard the titan. Sounds great if you are in a massive coalition.

nobody requires you to use titan bridges to cover a single constellation, in fact in most constellations that would be a dumb idea as you just accumulate spaceaids to save a minute - at best - while probably losing time from sitting on the titan and organizing things
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#115 - 2015-03-23 19:08:41 UTC
Hell; there's a constellation in Deklein where a single titan can't even hit every system in it due to its hilarious geography and a titan's elderly 5LY range.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
1Robert McNamara1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2015-03-23 19:22:56 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
My question is, if you are in a moored ship, would you have the outside grid loaded, or see the station interior? If it's the former, then this isn't an issue - if there's a bubble, you don't unmoor.

If, on the other hand, it's mechanically the same as docking, and all you see is the inside of the station hangar, then just let them dock.


They stated during the round table recording on TMC that ideally station interiors would go away. Everyone moored or docked would get to see what's going on outside.

The other thing for people hoping to keep POS's, that's probably not going to happen. We all hate POS code. CCP has to replace it with something else and the amorphous idea of Mooring is up for definition. Do we want it to work exactly the same as POS? or do we want something better? worse? Fighting to keep POSs is probably wasted text at this point.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#117 - 2015-03-23 19:23:00 UTC
RainReaper wrote:
...why should it even be a risk to lose a titan or a super simply cause you left it in an array? it should be possible to leave a ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause you wanted to leave it for a little bit.


Do you park your car on the street with no risk of it ever being stolen? No. Do you go on vacation with zero risk of someone breaking into your home and stealing all your things? No. Do you use your credit card online with no risk of your financial information being stolen? No.

The same things are true of Eve Online. The difference is that in Eve, there are no repercussions for theft if it is done within the game universe. There is no place in Eve Online for a zero-risk situation. If you think it should be so, Diablo 3 is over at the Blizzard servers.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#118 - 2015-03-23 19:24:35 UTC
Will subcaps be able to anchor? I noticed in the dev blog the only structures that allowed docking were the XL superstructures. It would seem odd that strategic assets can anchor to a large structure, but a little T1 frigate can't be safe in anything other than an XL structure three times larger than most NPC stations.

It shouldn't take an XL structure to keep safe subcaps if all thats required to keep capitals safe is a large.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#119 - 2015-03-23 19:28:52 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Will subcaps be able to anchor? I noticed in the dev blog the only structures that allowed docking were the XL superstructures. It would seem odd that strategic assets can anchor to a large structure, but a little T1 frigate can't be safe in anything other than an XL structure three times larger than most NPC stations.

It shouldn't take an XL structure to keep safe subcaps if all thats required to keep capitals safe is a large.

I think the smaller ships would get to properly dock, like they do in stations now. Mooring was mostly reserved for supercapital ships, though I think having, e.g. capitals have to moor at smaller structures might be kinda cool.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#120 - 2015-03-23 19:38:23 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
"The idea for the mooring capabilities are that they are configurable and have a finite limit, so multiple structures will be required to house particularly large fleets." Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure.

Actually, I think this is a good mechanic. It ensures that you leave enough berthing capacity at your forward operating bases for these contingencies. I'm not 100% on how mooring is intended to work, but I assume it would be something along the lines of adding an "S" module that expands mooring capability by x number of supercapital berths.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.