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Captain's Quarters graphic engine
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Frunje Elbris
Bovine Ltd.
#1 - 2015-03-23 12:14:34 UTC
Hello CCP,
after watching fanfest stream (and primarily arts panel), I am curious about CQ graphics engine. If I remember correctly, it was build from scratch to provide all the cool stuff like ambient occlusion, which the space rendering engine couldn't provide at the time. But now, four years later, space engine is in great shape, and could be used for both scenarios?

Are there any plans for that, or am I clueless and there is only one graphic engine in eve? [As a linux user, I cannot test whether CQ looks better than few years ago].

In case there are two engines, has anyone made any estimations how much effort it would be to get rid of the legacy stuff?

Thanks!
HiltoftheDragons
Grievance3
#2 - 2015-03-23 12:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: HiltoftheDragons
I could be mistaken....but you brought up a touchy subject. I wont be surprised to see this thread locked.

Destiny always seems decades away, but suddenly it's not decades away; it's right now. But maybe destiny is always right now, right here, right this very instant, maybe.
Frunje Elbris
Bovine Ltd.
#3 - 2015-03-23 12:23:16 UTC
Let's try this old trick...

CCP Mankiller, CCP Mankiller, CCP Mankiller
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-03-23 13:00:46 UTC
im pretty sure theres only 1 engine, i think it was more that engine wasnt designed to handle mechanics and models that CQ demanded that caused it to have serious issues (it was meant for submarines, not people)
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#5 - 2015-03-23 13:21:20 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
im pretty sure theres only 1 engine, i think it was more that engine wasnt designed to handle mechanics and models that CQ demanded that caused it to have serious issues (it was meant for submarines, not people)


carbon.
Frunje Elbris
Bovine Ltd.
#6 - 2015-03-23 14:11:55 UTC
Oh, Carbon. Forgot this buzzword of the past :) But still, I am bit confused, as I understood PBR as update to whole game [apart from low graphic settings], but it hadn't affected CQ [or at least our avatars, rendered by the same scenario].

So the graphic stack in CQ works the way Ambulantion provides Trinity with data, and because it is not updated to the latest standard, Trinity renders it in old way?
Moen LaiDai
Sunbro Wants You Succeed And Have Fun
#7 - 2015-03-23 14:42:36 UTC
My graphic card works silently and fine when I am driving in space, but it runs crazy noisy everytime I visit CQShocked
HiltoftheDragons
Grievance3
#8 - 2015-03-23 15:36:13 UTC
Moen LaiDai wrote:
My graphic card works silently and fine when I am driving in space, but it runs crazy noisy everytime I visit CQShocked


Same for me. Im sure its a chore for everybody in one way or another.

Destiny always seems decades away, but suddenly it's not decades away; it's right now. But maybe destiny is always right now, right here, right this very instant, maybe.
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#9 - 2015-03-23 20:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Baljos Arnjak
Frunje Elbris wrote:
Oh, Carbon. Forgot this buzzword of the past :) But still, I am bit confused, as I understood PBR as update to whole game [apart from low graphic settings], but it hadn't affected CQ [or at least our avatars, rendered by the same scenario].

So the graphic stack in CQ works the way Ambulantion provides Trinity with data, and because it is not updated to the latest standard, Trinity renders it in old way?


From the PBR dev blog:
Quote:
In fact, we can replace the single formula with a collection of different ones, all using the same data (material properties), but with different levels of exactness/simplification. We get to pick and choose. This new collection of rendering models is called “Physically Based Rendering” or PBR.

For implementation in New Eden, we chose Schlick’s approximation for the Fresnel factor, a distribution model from Trowbridge and Reitz (also known as GGX), and a Schlick-Smith based visibility function. All in all, a pretty standard PBR cocktail when it comes to non-organic objects. To give you an idea about the new complexity of our calculations, here is just the formula for the specular.
*emphasis mine.

So, it sounds to me like they only added the models that applied to ships. As to why that is, my guess is that is that CQ is a plugin of the Carbon engine into Trinity, kinda like how Flash is a plugin to your browser, and they were only tasked to work on the FiS (Trinity) side of it. Which isn't surprising given how much of a stigma that WiS has had since it was deployed. Any non FiS development will result in a very vocal part of the community throwing a fit.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-03-23 20:30:46 UTC
Frunje Elbris wrote:
Let's try this old trick...

CCP Mankiller, CCP Mankiller, CCP Mankiller


To my knowledge this only works on Chribba.

Chribba, Chribba, Chribba.
Adacia Calla
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-03-23 20:43:25 UTC
Frunje Elbris wrote:
Hello CCP,
after watching fanfest stream (and primarily arts panel), I am curious about CQ graphics engine. If I remember correctly, it was build from scratch to provide all the cool stuff like ambient occlusion, which the space rendering engine couldn't provide at the time. But now, four years later, space engine is in great shape, and could be used for both scenarios?

Are there any plans for that, or am I clueless and there is only one graphic engine in eve? [As a linux user, I cannot test whether CQ looks better than few years ago].

In case there are two engines, has anyone made any estimations how much effort it would be to get rid of the legacy stuff?

Thanks!

To save you some sanity, it's best to let this subject fade from your thoughts. It caused thousands of people to leave the game.

Test signature....forum not applying settings :(
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-03-23 20:47:17 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
Frunje Elbris wrote:
Let's try this old trick...

CCP Mankiller, CCP Mankiller, CCP Mankiller


To my knowledge this only works on Chribba.

Chribba, Chribba, Chribba.



It must suck. They probably know how beetlejuice feels.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Frunje Elbris
Bovine Ltd.
#13 - 2015-03-24 08:55:41 UTC
Adacia Calla wrote:
Frunje Elbris wrote:
Hello CCP,
after watching fanfest stream (and primarily arts panel), I am curious about CQ graphics engine. If I remember correctly, it was build from scratch to provide all the cool stuff like ambient occlusion, which the space rendering engine couldn't provide at the time. But now, four years later, space engine is in great shape, and could be used for both scenarios?

Are there any plans for that, or am I clueless and there is only one graphic engine in eve? [As a linux user, I cannot test whether CQ looks better than few years ago].

In case there are two engines, has anyone made any estimations how much effort it would be to get rid of the legacy stuff?

Thanks!

To save you some sanity, it's best to let this subject fade from your thoughts. It caused thousands of people to leave the game.


I am interested in this topic more from a technical/developer standpoint. :)

Baljos Arnjak wrote:
Any non FiS development will result in a very vocal part of the community throwing a fit.

But in case there is legacy rendering pipeline to maintain, it would be better to focus a bit on it and update it to the latest standard...