EVE General Discussion

That smacks of "hiding in the ambiguity", which is what happens in people find out that the thing they've been claiming can't be proved.

It happens all the time, people make a claim about something they couldn't possibly know about (in this case, you'd have to personally know thousands of people to know exactly why they quit) a claim usually seated completely in their own biases, and when some authority (of people actually studying the situation) says "we don't know for sure, but signs point to no", all they here is "we don't know).

Tel me honestly, if Rise had said the opposite (ie" we don't know for sure, but it looks like ganking does chase people from the game"), how would the people refuting his report in it's entirety be responding? Would they be saying "well we don't know"? lol Rhetorical question as you and I both know the answer.


The real truth here is that the 'think of the children' posters are the "social justice" types and they've just been told that the gross injustice around which their entire personalities revolve hasn't been proven (as it would have if it were near as bad as they thought it was) and probably isn't even true at all. That's why the backfire effect I mention exists in the 1st place, it's a defense mechanism against a crushing reality.

The best part is that he immediately moves to demanding proof from other people, while maintaining his long standing lie.

This Fanfest revelation is delightful.

Long standing lie?

Mr Epeen

also people are making an enormous assumption when they suggest that most people don't fill in the form

... in response to a speech where ccp rise was talking about the dangers of making assumptions

seriously, the stats in the op was given as part of a talk about how important it is to get good data

This is one of the most interesting thing about this thread. CCP's Rise's talk was titled "Using Science to Help Newbros" where he was discussing the rational and empirical approach they are using to revamp the NPE. The entire point of him using the suicide ganking example was to show how the general assumption of the players (and perhaps even devs) that suicide ganking was bad for new players was wrong. Yet you have people here going on about how the the data is wrong or useless and how suicide ganking is a primary cause of new players leaving despite CCP Rise's directly saying this is not the case, and yet these deniers have no facts whatever. Basically they are taking the position that a lead CCP game designer is lying to them.

Sure, there are some valid points been made that the few statistics presented don't tell the whole story. Perhaps players may leave the game some months after starting after getting ganked, or later when they hear of other players losing ships and deciding this game isn't for them (although CCP has this data). But certainly the data are compelling that isolating players from the sandbox is actually bad for player retention, and that the number of players 'rage-quiting' because they lost their stuff is so low it is not worth considering.

So whether or not you think CCP Rise's analysis of true new players holds for the few-month-old players, this observation certainly throws cold water on the notion that we should be 'bubble-wrapping' the new players to isolate them from any conflict in the sandbox. Increasing safety in highsec decreases player interaction and as seen in Rise's data, that leads to players quitting at a higher rate.

On reflection that makes perfect sense. CCP is not selling a single-player missioning game as evidenced by the amount of work (near zero) spent on improving missions over the last few years. Eve's real attraction is the sandbox and the player interactions that the sandbox facilitates so it makes no sense to isolate new players, or allow established players to isolate themselves from the sandbox. That friends is the path to boredom and another unsubscription.

But some people are resistant to change their views and they will come here and deny the facts no matter how much data CCP provides. Thankfully that doesn't matter. CCP has the data and CCP will make the decisions to the future of the game.

If you keep insisting on seeing this data as being complete then fine , let's pretend it is.

From this perfect data we can see that of all the pilots 1 % got ganked.Of all the pilots1% stated they quit the game because of ship loss or harassment .

There you go , so we can asses that everyone who got ganked did quit.




Now tell me again this data is not incomplete enough to draw any decent conclusion as to what extent ganking has meaning on players leaving the game.You can twist and turn this data to how it suits your own view and as such it is incomplete data.

When I was a n00b, I jumped into low sec and died.

That interaction, where I read the warnings and accepted the risk and paid dearly for it, that sealed the fate of my subscription (almost 10 years ago now).

No one picked on me though.

I'm 200% positive if I just lost my ship with zero warnings I'd be a level 55 Thunderclap wizard in another game.

I am an elitist.
I often rhetorically ask, "Do you believe in evolution?" then with some sort of agreement I follow on with, "Then why do we ensure that the dim and feeble not only live but also breed? "

The Internet, when it was young, was my erudite haven and with the advent of AOL and W.aste o.f W.eb it has become severly watered down.
That said, I don't yell out at some newbie how clueless they are like some people. (I can't think of an animal sufficient for this analogy). Most recently, some of the Brave players have received fits mailed to them unrequested along with a little guidance, they are probably not the best but they are a step up.

There are some regular others though, who think they know best and are as big a jerk as they can be, whom I take every opportunity to rub every loss into their emotional wounds like salt.

You see, he's leaving out the fact that to twist and turn those statistics you need to first be prepared to ignore the text that actually defines what those statistics are and how they were gathered.

Well, there are many ways to gank a newbie, however most of them rely on the fact that the new player doesn't have a good grasp of the game mechanics yet or how to avoid having it happen.

That being said, whether new or a veteran, even armed with that knowledge many people are too lazy to take the easy steps necessary to avoid being ganked... and that's perfectly fine.

That's just human nature, not an indicator that the game mechanics need to be revised.

The only thing necessary is to make sure that the correct information is readily available to new players right off the bat, and that they are aware of exactly what things they need to know to survive and thrive... and where to learn it.