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Removal of Local Chat
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#61 - 2015-03-22 22:12:14 UTC
If Jita is to be included in this alleged removal, count me in.

Mr Epeen Cool
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#62 - 2015-03-22 22:26:53 UTC
Madd Adda wrote:
face it, you want local gone because you can then war dec and sneak up on the afk miners without them knowing.


And local somehow needs to be changed for that?

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2015-03-23 02:45:40 UTC
Kuga wrote:
Unfortunately removal of local is not a viable option until either:

1. Removal of local in null sec is equivocal or of lower risk than that of wormhole space (i.e power projection will need to be severely curtailed or removed completely, including black ops dropping).

Or 2. Null sec is made considerably more rewarding than W-space to compensate the ability of hostiles to drop on you from up to 50 different systems instantly and at any time.

I would prefer the first criterion to be met, personally. Not meeting one of these will cause a mass exodus from null sec (for example, rife blops dropping everything will last for about a week until no-one rats or mines anymore).

Once this has happened, I am happy for local to go bye bye in null sec.



At fan fest CCP presented a new device part of a future null mechanics overhaul along with the intention to make it more desirable/profitable . From that perspective it would be more rational to allow sov owners (or occupants) to customize their informational network.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2015-03-23 02:53:02 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Tajic Kaundur wrote:
Given that the lore explanation for local chat existing is basically "stargates take logs of you jumping through them and tell everyone you're here"; I feel like taking that lore to the logical conclusion would be a good way to make local chat work.

If you enter system without a gate (cyno, wormhole, logging in), you don't show up in local until you talk (or dock? maybe stations are on the gate network as well or something?)

This gives potential methods to get around local chat for PvP, but it doesn't completely eliminate it.


No, lore explanation is registration with stargate network. In other words, once you fail to register in system upon arrival, the entire gate network will deny you access from that point forward. Once you "fall off the grid" you're denied access to all gates, forever.

But yeah, lore exist to justify game mechanics, not the other way around. Don't let lore stop you, it can always be changed.




The registration at gates "lore" doesn't quite fit along with the cyno/wormhole mechanics.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2015-03-23 02:59:03 UTC
Xpaulusx wrote:
You want Local removed?, then automate D-Scan like it does with anomalies with read outs super imposed. The rate and resolution at which these scans occur is set by the pilot.


Totally support an automatic d-scan. Maybe conditioned in quality/amount of info by sensor strength.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#66 - 2015-03-23 04:17:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Sean Parisi wrote:
I quite like local chat in Low Sec. It lets me know that there are people to fight. Its like a dating site but for EvE.

This. Local is the best match making tool you can have in a sandbox. It's an MMO, isn't to know some other player is there the point?

If you lack fights because of no local, talk, tell them where you are and stuff. They'll come.



I never forgot the one guy years ago in exploration channel. Said something in WH local and 20 Russian tengus were hunting him in 5 minutes.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#67 - 2015-03-23 05:44:15 UTC
Local won't go until they develop a decent intel system.

Proposed structure changes look like a good place for CCP to introduce an intel system that actually makes sense. A whole overhaul of the system could be a great place to introduce new nuance to eve, ways to differentiate different areas of space and changeup strategies.

They will never just 'remove local' without something to take it's place.
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#68 - 2015-03-23 05:58:40 UTC
I'd rather LOCAL was replaced with instant-updating CONSTELLATION chat. Then you'd know people were around, but wouldn't know exactly where they were. And you'd still have a place for your scams and ASCII art.
Nick Actilete
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2015-03-23 06:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Actilete
I think being able to see who is in system makes sense in low and highsec due to Concord presence. in nullsec and wormholes the lack of Concord or any intelligence/police infrastructure setup by empire makes excluding local chat make sense. However, I do think that if an alliance holds sovereignty over an area they should be able to setup a intelligence network there. I'm hoping this is at least part of what the "observatory" structure announced at fanfest is.
Scira Crimson
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#70 - 2015-03-23 06:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scira Crimson
I am surprised that people want local to go.

As I see it, the game provides almost no protection against dedicated ganker. Pre-aligning and local are the only VIABLE countermeasurements against ganking (which is sad)

Dont tell me warp core stabilizer or agility is a viable defensive mechanic!

Imo warp core stabs need a HUUUGE buff, because for PvE its a 100% useless module. 1 warp core stabilzer is worth at least "-3 modules" which is too much of a tradeoff.
If WCS had not targeting malus, it would be a meaningful countermeasurement and provide somewhat protection(but even not then)

Currently there is almost no counterplay or itemizsation possible vs >dedicated< ganks.

If there is a decent group of 3 people wiith specialized ships and there was no local, they will 100% kill you, even if you stack 4 WCS.
Falken Falcon
#71 - 2015-03-23 08:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Falken Falcon
Scira Crimson wrote:
I am surprised that people want local to go.

As I see it, the game provides almost no protection against dedicated ganker. Pre-aligning and local are the only VIABLE countermeasurements against ganking (which is sad)

Eve is supposed to be a dark and dangerous place. High sec is not supposed to be 100% safe. That is why concord works as it works. I will assume that in this case ganking means ganking miners in HS and you are complaining that you cant afk mine with 100% safetyness. The best defence against gankers is not being afk, aligned if possible and making your ship more trouble than it is worth (Skiff).

Scira Crimson wrote:

Dont tell me warp core stabilizer or agility is a viable defensive mechanic!

They are, but don't assume they will allow you to do anything and save you from anything. They assist only, like most things they only assist and YOU will have to do the actual work.

Scira Crimson wrote:

Imo warp core stabs need a HUUUGE buff, because for PvE its a 100% useless module. 1 warp core stabilzer is worth at least "-3 modules" which is too much of a tradeoff.
If WCS had not targeting malus, it would be a meaningful countermeasurement and provide somewhat protection(but even not then)
Core stabs are not meant to be pve modules, mainly because you don't need them in pve, not really. Only rats that warp disrupt (Note: They don't scram) are frigates that can be neutralized by nearly every ship in eve.

Scira Crimson wrote:

Currently there is almost no counterplay or itemizsation possible vs >dedicated< ganks.

If there is a decent group of 3 people wiith specialized ships and there was no local, they will 100% kill you, even if you stack 4 WCS.
Nothing is ever 100%, if you would play eve, you would know that.

Pro tip: If you see pile of destroyers landing on the belt, you should warp out.

Also D-Scan d-scan d-scan and yes it will be harder without local (See WH mining), but never 100%


Edit: Ignore if you were a troll

Aye, Sea Turtles
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#72 - 2015-03-23 08:59:31 UTC
Scira Crimson wrote:
I Pre-aligning and local are the only VIABLE countermeasurements against ganking (which is sad)



Rubbish. You are playing an MMO. Working together is the best measure against ganking. Join Bovril Brothers, an excellent Null Sec mining corporation that defend their own space.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2015-03-23 09:24:28 UTC
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
Local won't go until they develop a decent intel system.

Proposed structure changes look like a good place for CCP to introduce an intel system that actually makes sense. A whole overhaul of the system could be a great place to introduce new nuance to eve, ways to differentiate different areas of space and changeup strategies.

They will never just 'remove local' without something to take it's place.



The way I see is to gradually decline the amount of free information a player receives, from the Empire /Concord, in correlation with the security status of the system and being totally customizable, by the sov owner, in null, through different structures or devices. To achieve that perhaps a full revamp of the d-scan system might be the place to start, having it rely not only on ship capacities but also on structures', present in the system, ability to deliver information back to ships own intel sensors.

Thus, while ships will have the same d-scan ability/performance, being connected to the right comm channels would improve the quality and amount of the information received proportionally with or conditioned by their relation status with the owner of the informational device releasing system data.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Scira Crimson
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2015-03-23 09:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Scira Crimson
Wow!

I neveer blame people for not understanding my posts, because this is rude and ignorant but

Falken Falcon really hit the ****!


my main point is, that you have no appropriate countermeasurements against >>>dedicated<<< gankers!

Ofc A WCS has a good chance of saving you from a solo player, but this was not the point!


Also I do not mine, so I dont know what you mean. And I never complained about high sec ganking.


The main point was:

if you are not pre aligned and watch local in <0,5 sec, you will 100% die no matter what fitting you use.
Even D-Scan might deceive you in false security.

And this is indeed true. If you dont agree, you havnt seen it all.


My problem is:

local + pre align >>>>> than any other countermeasurements
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2015-03-23 09:44:49 UTC
Scira Crimson wrote:
The main point was:

if you are not pre aligned and watch local in <0,5 sec, you will 100% die no matter what fitting you use.
Even D-Scan might deceive you in false security.

And this is indeed true. If you dont agree, you havnt seen it all.

So what?

Grrr.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2015-03-23 09:46:48 UTC
Scira Crimson wrote:
Wow!

I neveer blame people for not understanding my posts, because this is rude and ignorant but

Falken Falcon really hit the ****!


my main point is, that you have no appropriate countermeasurements against >>>dedicated<<< gankers!

Ofc A WCS has a good chance of saving you from a solo player, but this was not the point!


Also I do not mine, so I dont know what you mean. And I never complained about high sec ganking.


The main point was:

if you are not pre aligned and watch local in <0,5 sec, you will 100% die no matter what fitting you use.
Even D-Scan might deceive you in false security.

And this is indeed true. If you dont agree, you havnt seen it all.




Having d-scan information delivered based on security rating might give a miner an edge, it does not, however protect them from the information delivered back to gankers by a physically present scout in the roid field.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Falken Falcon
#77 - 2015-03-23 09:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Falken Falcon
Scira Crimson wrote:
Wow!

I neveer blame people for not understanding my posts, because this is rude and ignorant but

Falken Falcon really hit the ****!


my main point is, that you have no appropriate countermeasurements against >>>dedicated<<< gankers!

Ofc A WCS has a good chance of saving you from a solo player, but this was not the point!


Also I do not mine, so I dont know what you mean. And I never complained about high sec ganking.


The main point was:

if you are not pre aligned and watch local in <0,5 sec, you will 100% die no matter what fitting you use.
Even D-Scan might deceive you in false security.

And this is indeed true. If you dont agree, you havnt seen it all.


My problem is:

local + pre align >>>>> than any other countermeasurements
I apologize then,
You gotta make you post more clear then with an example scenario to visualize your dilemma more.

So are you saying that there should be a way to be able to escape an entire fleet that has landed on you at 0?

Aye, Sea Turtles
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2015-03-23 09:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Scira Crimson wrote:
Wow!

I neveer blame people for not understanding my posts, because this is rude and ignorant but

Falken Falcon really hit the ****!


my main point is, that you have no appropriate countermeasurements against >>>dedicated<<< gankers!

Ofc A WCS has a good chance of saving you from a solo player, but this was not the point!


Also I do not mine, so I dont know what you mean. And I never complained about high sec ganking.


The main point was:

if you are not pre aligned and watch local in <0,5 sec, you will 100% die no matter what fitting you use.
Even D-Scan might deceive you in false security.

And this is indeed true. If you dont agree, you havnt seen it all.


My problem is:

local + pre align >>>>> than any other countermeasurements



Beats me why miners do not organize themselves and establish mining fleet expeditions with hired mercs for protection, links, boosts and all sort of stuff. Gankers can organize themselves with eaze but "good guys" can't.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Oxide Ammar
#79 - 2015-03-23 10:24:16 UTC
Phig Neutron wrote:
I'd rather LOCAL was replaced with instant-updating CONSTELLATION chat. Then you'd know people were around, but wouldn't know exactly where they were. And you'd still have a place for your scams and ASCII art.


I see this as fair solution for both sides.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2015-03-23 10:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Phig Neutron wrote:
I'd rather LOCAL was replaced with instant-updating CONSTELLATION chat. Then you'd know people were around, but wouldn't know exactly where they were. And you'd still have a place for your scams and ASCII art.


I see this as fair solution for both sides.



Yeah, could be very fair and simple.

p.s. also would probably have very funny effects on gameplay Lol

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato