These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Deaf and Fanfest 2015

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lachesiss
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-03-20 11:06:51 UTC
Tbh for those hard of hearing it would be good for ccp to speak with the seminar installers to add in loop to loop hearing units or the option of the lapel wearing signal boosters.

There actually not expensive either.

For the totally deaf subtitles on a separate unit or an interpreter would be helpful.

From what I gather there alot of people who play eve who have hearing issues and this would be a good time for the newly elected CSM to look into this

On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.
Claud Tiberius
#22 - 2015-03-20 11:14:19 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
d0cTeR9 wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'

I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability.


Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people...

Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.

UghUghUgh

A wheelchair ramp is something that can be easily accommodated for during construction, and is mandated in a lot of places. It is a reasonable imposition to have handicap accessibility be part of the building code.

There is a very big difference between a permanent ramp, and requiring a company to hire someone at significant expense in order to translate for a single person, especially at an event where there are many nationalities coming together, splitting up, and attending simultaneous presentations in different rooms.

Does it suck that there was not someone available to translate for the one deaf person? Yes, very much so for that person.

Is it a major offense that a small international gathering of people talking about very particular subjects involving lots of specialized terminology in the ass crack of a smallish Icelandic town (110k people) couldn't find an available English sign language translator to follow around the one deaf person and translate everything for him for three days at a non prohibitive price?

No. That is not a reasonable expectation for a small company presentation.

Are you sure? It's minority discrimination. At what point does it become a reasonable expectation?

I think all CCP needs to do next time is have a disability guide -informing: "What is/isn't available, and how to use it".

Having said that I think FF generally handles its clients very well.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Erika Mizune
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#23 - 2015-03-20 11:21:39 UTC
Indeed, this was an issue that I was wanting to bring up if I got on CSM, not just this but also ingame elements to assist those players with disabilities with more options. I mean hell; even WoW/Blizzard offers Closed Captions on most of their stuff!

It's important because those who have these disabilities are held back and it makes it harder. I sympathize. As for the lop hearing units, those can sometimes help depending on how much the person can hear. so that may not be effective tbh.

I have hearing aids, but that doesn't help much especially in noisy places; there is a lot of feedback - so subtitles or a asl translator would be nice. Subtitles would be more useful on the actual twitch stream, or do like they have on live presentations with a ASL terp in the corner of the screen. I had a bit of trouble hearing the stream at times so having those subtitles/closed captions would have helped so much. I am sure I am not alone.

I'm sure hiring a interpreter wouldn't cost that much for them; it would be worth it so those that can't hear are not left out; I know how depressing it can be to be in these settings and not knowing what's going on because you can't keep up with what's going on.

Former DJ & Manager of Eve Radio | Blog | Sounds of New Eden | Twitch | Twitter
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-03-20 11:27:36 UTC
Re-Tweeted.

The solution to this of course hinges on there being an interpreter that can do English sign. Iceland being such a minute nation it's not a given.

Best of luck to OP. One can see the pretty huge cred CCP would get for sorting this issue, if at all possible.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#25 - 2015-03-20 11:41:04 UTC
Tough situation all around mate. Sorry to hear your Fanfest sucked.

Not today spaghetti.
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#26 - 2015-03-20 13:06:08 UTC
I've heard a number of people have contacted you, hopefully you've been able to meet up with some of them and hopefully they can help you have a better time for the rest of Fanfest!

I am aware of the issues the deaf and hard of hearing can have in Eve. We have a few deaf players who come on our roams several times a month, and whenever I know they are in fleet, I take special care to broadcast everything as much as possible. That way they are able to keep up with fleet and shoot the primaries Big smile They actually keep up with the fleet better than some of my hearing pilots Lol And as for I myself... well, my ears aren't getting any younger ...

I've actually tested out several text-to-speech tools to use in fleets, that would type whatever the FC says in fleet chat. They actually work, except you have to keep your cursor in the chat box which isn't possible when I'm also targeting and stuff... one day I may find a solution to that, 'cause I think it'd be a great thing to be able to do, not just for those of us with variable hearing, but also for English as a second language players.

Thanks for bringing this important issue to the forefront! Hopefully some good will come out of it!

GG

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
ISD CharginMoose
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#27 - 2015-03-20 13:19:58 UTC
I just wanted to let everyone know we have met up with the OP and have him with our German Sign linguist in what I would have to consider one of the more difficult talks of the day. (Make EVE Real - Creating Planetary Civilizations)

When we have a free moment I'll try to have the OP chime in to give an update.
Alan Mathison
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
#28 - 2015-03-20 13:52:37 UTC
I hope things worked out with the German speaker.

I'm not sure where you come from. Your English seems very good, so I have to think you may be either American or English.

And that would lead to the question I had all through this thread which no one asked: which sign language do you speak? ASL is very different from BSL and unless you're familiar with sign language, most people really don't know that.

Don't leave the game! Report back on what happens. Keep working. You above everyone else on this thread know the battles you face on a daily basis to just do what some of us don't even think about. Keeping up on this could have you changing the game, and Fanfest, to a greater degree than any Member of Council or any single developer.

Face it, the demographics show that EVE attracts a more mature player, and has already been said, our ears aren't getting any better...as I'm sure my partner would agree insofar as I'm concerned! :)

-- Alan Mathison, Explorer & Industrialist, Star Tide Industries
Harek
Vonlenska
#29 - 2015-03-20 14:34:11 UTC
Wow, I'm stunned by how many posts and you all are supportive.
In my past experience at fests and conventions, at first no interpreter and the committee won't budge. Countless of messages to get the point across. I had to bring them to my perspective and use the American ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) to put on the bigger picture that regardless the disability, we all have the equal right to access the same say in voice, visual, and physical.

After one particular Sci-fi convention finally got a interpreter. In the second year, more deaf people attended because the word got around. The event management became very grateful and loved seeing more diversity at the convention. Every time I go there, I always thank her deep from my heart for all the work and effort to provide equal access. I'm known for fighting not just for me but for all.

Today I met the German sign language interpreter. I can tell it was a chore for her to comprehend the speaker and sign in German and some in English. I picked up quite a bit on German today and it's slowly becoming more smoother and enjoyable to understand the speaker.

Do hope that CCP looks at this thread and learn from this.
Harek
Vonlenska
#30 - 2015-03-20 14:36:24 UTC
I sign American Sign Language and it is very different from British Sign Language. I do know a bit of Icelandic Sign Language and glad to say also learning quite a bit of German Sign Language as well.

I will not quit or give up on this. This is worth fighting for. Seeing so many responses is amazing powerful.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#31 - 2015-03-20 19:00:27 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'

I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability.


Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people...

Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.

UghUghUgh


There are only 300,000 people on the entire island!
Erika Mizune
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#32 - 2015-03-20 19:38:44 UTC
Harek, That is great to hear that it worked out and picking up another language is always great as well. I am also in the process of trying to learn JSL (Japanese Sign Language); I find sign language in general very beautiful and much more expressive than any other language.

The community here is great and very supportive of it's members. We are all here together and want to help each other. (Even if it means showing love with guns in-game, but that's another story)

I do hope CCP learns from this and tries to take more effect to make more adaptations for people with disabilities.

Former DJ & Manager of Eve Radio | Blog | Sounds of New Eden | Twitch | Twitter
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#33 - 2015-03-20 21:38:16 UTC
Harek wrote:
I sign American Sign Language and it is very different from British Sign Language. I do know a bit of Icelandic Sign Language and glad to say also learning quite a bit of German Sign Language as well.

I will not quit or give up on this. This is worth fighting for. Seeing so many responses is amazing powerful.



Players solutions are the best solutions, even out of the game. This outcome is of no surprise. Hope it all goes well for you.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Reiisha
#34 - 2015-03-20 21:42:46 UTC
Erika Mizune wrote:
even WoW/Blizzard offers Closed Captions on most of their stuff!

...

I'm sure hiring a interpreter wouldn't cost that much for them; it would be worth it so those that can't hear are not left out; I know how depressing it can be to be in these settings and not knowing what's going on because you can't keep up with what's going on.


Singled out those comments:

WoW has *at least* 16 times more subscribers and Blizzcon attracts over 50,000 people (i think the last one was 70-80k?). Blizz' "fanfest" is literally 50 times the size of CCP's. I think it's rather unfair to compare the two.


Then there's the interpreter: They would have to find someone who would be willing (and able!) to interpret EVE specific terminology (and other rather technical stuff) in quite a lot of different English accents in real time.

For 6-8 hours a day.

For 3 days.

I'm not sure what people think this costs, but this can easily go into the quadruple digits, if you can even find such a person. At best, you'd get the cliffnotes version of what's going on.


While i am supportive, i have to play devil's advocate here, and there's a lot of costs involved for people trying to make it possible. I'm glad the German interpreter is working out, but please don't be too one-sided on this issue. It may seem cruel, but i think it's very rude to expect special treatment like that and also expecting that it's an utterly trivial thing to organize, especially with any sense of entitlement.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#35 - 2015-03-20 22:44:34 UTC
I thought I saw some guy on stage doing sign language yesterday on stream

maybe it just looked that way :p
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#36 - 2015-03-20 23:55:24 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'

I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability.


Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people...

Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.

UghUghUgh

It's Iceland.
How many do you think there are in Iceland who can speak American Sign Language?
ISD CharginMoose
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#37 - 2015-03-21 01:11:32 UTC
From what I've been told there are around 24-27 sign linguests in Iceland. None of whichwhich are ASL fluent. As somesomeon else has said you then have the issue of people not being aware of eve terminology adding to the difficulty.

To have made things easier the large scripted talks would have been needed by the interpreter before hand to practice but also fully understand the talk.

But either way we are trying our best to help this individual. I just wanted to add a few facts to the discussion.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#38 - 2015-03-21 08:22:15 UTC
Harek wrote:
I sign American Sign Language and it is very different from British Sign Language. I do know a bit of Icelandic Sign Language and glad to say also learning quite a bit of German Sign Language as well.

I will not quit or give up on this. This is worth fighting for. Seeing so many responses is amazing powerful.


awesome to hear. I live in an area with a rather large deaf community, and can remember seeing deaf interpreters at concerts and various other events. and on that note I wouldn't be too surprised to see that there is some overlap with the EVE player base. As far as the overall costs of fanfest I can't imaging getting an ASL interpreter or two would be all that expensive. Although I don't know much about signlanguage and know even less about the differences between the various kinds. this thread alone seems to include American, English, German, and Icelandic.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#39 - 2015-03-21 08:39:56 UTC
This conversation of c. beg to question why are there several versions for a sign language that is:

a) artificially constructed to match a spoken language to begin with
b) isn't really that old as far as languages go or old even as a concept
c) doesn't evolve in a way that normal languages do


And I think I already answered my own question with a)
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#40 - 2015-03-21 09:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Primary This Rifter
Baneken wrote:
This conversation of c. beg to question why are there several versions for a sign language that is:

a) artificially constructed to match a spoken language to begin with
b) isn't really that old as far as languages go or old even as a concept
c) doesn't evolve in a way that normal languages do


And I think I already answered my own question with a)

Because different spoken languages have different grammars, not just different words. It's easier for people to learn sign language when it shares grammar with the language that they're familiar with.

Remember sign language isn't just for deaf people, it's for people who want to talk to deaf people as well.