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Petition: Remove Slaves from the SCC Markets.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#121 - 2015-03-10 20:06:35 UTC
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Siddhar Gangari wrote:
This petition is without claws. The Ammar will never restrict it's peoples' access to slaves; their frail civilization would slowly avalanche into total collapse.

Try developing your reading comprehension. This petition is to cease the sale of slaves on the SCC. It has nothing to do with the Amarr at all - Concord would make the decision and the SCC would enforce it through the simple step.of delisting the commodities in question.

No, Pieter, it's not that.

It's to get Amarr authorities to make organizations like the Civic Court and Ammatar Consulate remove their standard sell orders from the SCC, and return to conducting their trade of slaves to local planetside markets only.

Samira is correct. This is in relation to the Greater Amarrian organizations. I personally would not be upset if all slaves were removed from the SCC market, but that is not what this is about.

Huh. Looks like my reading is faulty, then. I should probably rescind my support, this sounds like a purely internal Amarr matter.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#122 - 2015-03-19 00:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
Signed.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2015-03-19 18:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: The Leopardess
If anyone wants to own slaves if this gets any attention from the higher ups (doubtful) they are welcome to join the company I'll set up, granting you permission under my authority to be a slave master. ( i would legally own the slaves but you could "oversee" them as you see fit.) Any Holder would make a lot of money doing this if they did it the right way. Oh and I see the military personnel are now counting themselves as Holders. Nice try, that's earned through providence and bloodlines. What I mean is that it has often been the case that high ranking military and many religious clergy have been allowed to have slaves legally. That doesn't make you mercenaries and boot lickers HOLDERS.

And please, all of this simpering over mere slaves? Do you all have no self respect, Ammarrians? Where is all of the pathetic crying over Sansha's continued reign of terror (vastly overshadowing Naupilus' so-called "crime") or outrage over the continued murder of innocent Ammar Empire citizens at the hands of tribal forces? No, we have to whine on and on about a tiny incident that happened outside the borders of Empire space, to legally purchased slaves. I'm going to guess that the Empress, may God keep her and bless her, is spending hours fretting about the sale of slaves in foreign markets. I'm sure the battle-hardened war-like Caldari are fretting even more than her. Actually no, they're not and I'm sure you're all on some list somewhere now of people who won't have the stomache when the wars escalate and the slave markets explode with product needing homes.

Seems you all have a death wish and hate God's will.

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#124 - 2015-03-19 22:09:32 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
If anyone wants to own slaves if this gets any attention from the higher ups (doubtful) they are welcome to join the company I'll set up, granting you permission under my authority to be a slave master. ( i would legally own the slaves but you could "oversee" them as you see fit.) Any Holder would make a lot of money doing this if they did it the right way. Oh and I see the military personnel are now counting themselves as Holders. Nice try, that's earned through providence and bloodlines. What I mean is that it has often been the case that high ranking military and many religious clergy have been allowed to have slaves legally. That doesn't make you mercenaries and boot lickers HOLDERS.

And please, all of this simpering over mere slaves? Do you all have no self respect, Ammarrians? Where is all of the pathetic crying over Sansha's continued reign of terror (vastly overshadowing Naupilus' so-called "crime") or outrage over the continued murder of innocent Ammar Empire citizens at the hands of tribal forces? No, we have to whine on and on about a tiny incident that happened outside the borders of Empire space, to legally purchased slaves. I'm going to guess that the Empress, may God keep her and bless her, is spending hours fretting about the sale of slaves in foreign markets. I'm sure the battle-hardened war-like Caldari are fretting even more than her. Actually no, they're not and I'm sure you're all on some list somewhere now of people who won't have the stomache when the wars escalate and the slave markets explode with product needing homes.

Seems you all have a death wish and hate God's will.


Or you perhaps misunderstand that it is the holder's responsibility to care for their slaves spiritually as well as, actually more importantly, than physically. And the carrot is always more effective than the stick in the long run. Treat people as people, and they will yearn to know he whom you serve. For holders are servants of God, not simply those who own the bodies of others. We are merely the stewards He has entrusted with much to, and treating slaves as if they were beasts makes you no better than a heretic. I would go as to consider you a heretic, by your language and lack of sympathy towards the lives Nauplius has destroyed. But of course, that was merely ignorance on your part, and you will recognize your error. That is, if you are truly worthy of being called holder.

I would suggest choosing more wisely before insulting the faithful for being such, as well as belittling the deeds of heretics to mere trifles. Then you may be worthy of respect.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
Antera Deninard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-03-19 22:59:07 UTC
Say all you want but business will continue as usual.. only thing you will achieve will be rise of demand on those dirty slaves..
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2015-03-19 23:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: The Leopardess
Oh REALLY? You're going to pull the HERETIC card? I love how everyone and their dog loving grandmother seems to have the authority to dictate what IS and what is not HERESY these days! It's as if the Theology Council wasn't necessary anymore, given that they have all of these EAGER VOLUNTEERS!

The Empress herself has ordered the destruction of who knows how many slaves (I know because I have relatives in The Order of St. Tetrimon who carried out the attack on Kor-Azor's slaves). Are you now suggesting that our blessed Empress is a HERETIC? Like I said LISTS. YOU. ON ONE.

Defense of Empire is far more important and crucial than the re-education of slaves, no matter what Gallentean infiltrators would have anyone believe. It is right to dispense of a 1,000 Reclaimed slaves if it will save but one innocent Amarrian, even the lowest of them.

We are at war with the Minmatar Republic and until their aggression ceases, I will view even the most tyrannical slave owner's actions as far less important a crime than the abduction and killing of already-God-fearing CITIZENS.

Placing the safety of a slave above the safety of the Empire is EVIL, EVIL, EVIL. Sacrificing yourself for the safety and security of a non-believer slave is worse than anything, you are betraying God's edict to rule, conquer and wreak vengeance on the unholy infidels who turned their backs on their Lord and Master. And you should know that most slaves are stubborn nonbelievers, or you've never worked with the hateful little primitives.

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴
Kale Silence
Doomheim
#127 - 2015-03-20 00:25:02 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
Oh REALLY? You're going to pull the HERETIC card? I love how everyone and their dog loving grandmother seems to have the authority to dictate what IS and what is not HERESY these days! It's as if the Theology Council wasn't necessary anymore, given that they have all of these EAGER VOLUNTEERS!

The Empress herself has ordered the destruction of who knows how many slaves (I know because I have relatives in The Order of St. Tetrimon who carried out the attack on Kor-Azor's slaves). Are you now suggesting that our blessed Empress is a HERETIC? Like I said LISTS. YOU. ON ONE.

Defense of Empire is far more important and crucial than the re-education of slaves, no matter what Gallentean infiltrators would have anyone believe. It is right to dispense of a 1,000 Reclaimed slaves if it will save but one innocent Amarrian, even the lowest of them.

We are at war with the Minmatar Republic and until their aggression ceases, I will view even the most tyrannical slave owner's actions as far less important a crime than the abduction and killing of already-God-fearing CITIZENS.

Placing the safety of a slave above the safety of the Empire is EVIL, EVIL, EVIL. Sacrificing yourself for the safety and security of a non-believer slave is worse than anything, you are betraying God's edict to rule, conquer and wreak vengeance on the unholy infidels who turned their backs on their Lord and Master. And you should know that most slaves are stubborn nonbelievers, or you've never worked with the hateful little primitives.


Wow... you're a right piece o' work aren'tchya?

Hey Nappy! I think you've got a girlfriend lined up here!

*munches popcorn*
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2015-03-20 00:31:49 UTC
Abstain.

We do slavery different here in Khanid.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#129 - 2015-03-20 03:00:15 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
Oh REALLY? You're going to pull the HERETIC card? I love how everyone and their dog loving grandmother seems to have the authority to dictate what IS and what is not HERESY these days! It's as if the Theology Council wasn't necessary anymore, given that they have all of these EAGER VOLUNTEERS!

The Empress herself has ordered the destruction of who knows how many slaves (I know because I have relatives in The Order of St. Tetrimon who carried out the attack on Kor-Azor's slaves). Are you now suggesting that our blessed Empress is a HERETIC? Like I said LISTS. YOU. ON ONE.

Defense of Empire is far more important and crucial than the re-education of slaves, no matter what Gallentean infiltrators would have anyone believe. It is right to dispense of a 1,000 Reclaimed slaves if it will save but one innocent Amarrian, even the lowest of them.

We are at war with the Minmatar Republic and until their aggression ceases, I will view even the most tyrannical slave owner's actions as far less important a crime than the abduction and killing of already-God-fearing CITIZENS.

Placing the safety of a slave above the safety of the Empire is EVIL, EVIL, EVIL. Sacrificing yourself for the safety and security of a non-believer slave is worse than anything, you are betraying God's edict to rule, conquer and wreak vengeance on the unholy infidels who turned their backs on their Lord and Master. And you should know that most slaves are stubborn nonbelievers, or you've never worked with the hateful little primitives.


The threats to the Empire are many, your ladyship. We must combat all of them, not just one. And this issue has more to do than just the lives of the slaves. It is about upholding our traditions, traditions that have been eroding greatly over the last century. It is about our divine mandate from God. It is about the fact that the sin of greed has caused certain elements in our society to break Scriptural law regarding the rightful ownership of slaves in order to sell to those who are impure. It is a crime against Amarr and against God, and we must combat this threat as surely as we combat threats of the outside.

The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man.
To do so the enemies of the outside had to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled.
-Book I 1:14

We do not do service to Amarr or God when we ignore one threat to fight another. All enemies of the Empire must be defeated, both those without and those within.
Bel Boma
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2015-03-20 03:54:14 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
The threats to the Empire are many, your ladyship. We must combat all of them, not just one. And this issue has more to do than just the lives of the slaves. It is about upholding our traditions, traditions that have been eroding greatly over the last century. It is about our divine mandate from God. It is about the fact that the sin of greed has caused certain elements in our society to break Scriptural law regarding the rightful ownership of slaves in order to sell to those who are impure. It is a crime against Amarr and against God, and we must combat this threat as surely as we combat threats of the outside.

The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man.
To do so the enemies of the outside had to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled.
-Book I 1:14

We do not do service to Amarr or God when we ignore one threat to fight another. All enemies of the Empire must be defeated, both those without and those within.


It never ceases to impress me how respectfully poetic you can be about the Faith, even if you're arguing a point.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#131 - 2015-03-20 07:19:12 UTC
How about taking slaves off all markets? Let go the ones that want to leave, keep the ones that want to stay, and keep your filthy religion away from the rest of us. We want nothing to do with it.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#132 - 2015-03-20 11:51:08 UTC
Taking slaves off any and all markets would be better. The idea that it's alright to treat people as chattel is really ****** up.
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2015-03-20 18:46:46 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Taking slaves off any and all markets would be better. The idea that it's alright to treat people as chattel is really ****** up.



Ha! As opposed to just murdering people like you do? Hypocritical little snot! You ARE God's slave and he will reclaim you inevitably, even if there were no Amarr you would still have to face Retribution and Reclamation.

Miss Kernher, please just call me Sayuri. I get what you are saying, but don't you see that is exactly my point? All Amarrian capsuleers seem to like to do these days is fret about paltry issues, or this one politically charged issue, while the big issues that actually threaten Empire space or our values go completely ignored.

One maniac killing Minmatar slaves is not a threat to the Empire. The Gallente and Minmatar empires both hate us already - there is no repair or redemption of friendship there waiting to be had. They will annihilate us completely if they had the chance.

As long as the faithful stand strong in God's light and God's will, we'll never fail. Placing slaves above the worth of Amarrians is the beginning of an end to the covenant we share with our Lord, our promise to engage in Holy War and wreak his Vengeance on those unfaithful to their Lord, Father and Master.



龴ↀ◡ↀ龴
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#134 - 2015-03-20 19:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
The Leopardess wrote:
Miss Kernher, please just call me Sayuri. I get what you are saying, but don't you see that is exactly my point? All Amarrian capsuleers seem to like to do these days is fret about paltry issues, or this one politically charged issue, while the big issues that actually threaten Empire space or our values go completely ignored.


Ignored? We have not ignored the threats. I have fought heretics, Matari forces, and other threats against the Empire, and my alliance has been doing so for over ten years, recognized for our efforts by His Royal Highness the Heir Ardishapur, Grand Admiral Sundarra, Grand Inquisitor Omel, and others. We have most certainly not been ignoring these issues.

The fact that this thread exists is because we are choosing to not ignore this one. Not all threats are as obvious as bullets, ma'am. Many are far more insidious. Open markets forced on us by foreign interests that bypass our religious obligations and regulations are such a threat.

Quote:
One maniac killing Minmatar slaves is not a threat to the Empire. The Gallente and Minmatar empires both hate us already - there is no repair or redemption of friendship there waiting to be had. They will annihilate us completely if they had the chance.


This measure has nothing to do with the Gallente and Minmatar nations. Their opinions are irrelevent.

What this is about is protecting our traditions and upholding God's commands as given to us in Scripture. Only Holders have divine right to own slaves. The sale to anyone that is not a Holder is a crime against God. Allowing Scriptural law to be violated, allowing crimes against God to go unpunished, that is a threat.

Quote:
As long as the faithful stand strong in God's light and God's will, we'll never fail. Placing slaves above the worth of Amarrians is the beginning of an end to the covenant we share with our Lord, our promise to engage in Holy War and wreak his Vengeance on those unfaithful to their Lord, Father and Master.


With respect, you are widely misreading this if you believe that it is about 'placing slaves above the worth of Amarr'.

The ones who are placing the impure above Amarr are those elements in our society who view the divine rights of Holders as immaterial. The ones who are placing the impure above Amarr are those who believe that God's mandate that the worlds of the Heavens are for the Amarr does not have to be followed. The ones who are placing the impure above Amarr are those elements who feel it appropriate to sell slaves to commoners and godless foreigners.

The sale of slaves to foreigners goes against the Reclaiming. It is an Unclaiming. It is an Abandonment of religious responsibilities and divine rights.
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#135 - 2015-03-21 11:32:52 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Taking slaves off any and all markets would be better. The idea that it's alright to treat people as chattel is really ****** up.



Ha! As opposed to just murdering people like you do? Hypocritical little snot! You ARE God's slave and he will reclaim you inevitably, even if there were no Amarr you would still have to face Retribution and Reclamation.




You call me a murderer? Yea, I guess you're right, I've fought and killed people, I of course regret having to do such a thing but it is a necessary evil. In as much as you have the conviction and my Cousin Samira has the conviction to fight for what you believe in, I must defend freedom.

I must defend the right to worship as you desire, the right to think and speak as you desire, the right to love as you desire the right to choose your own government and to hold that government to account should it be found wanting. The Federation holds at it's core the most noble of ideas: to end suffering, real, actual suffering, can you say the same?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#136 - 2015-03-21 12:14:00 UTC
That idea does not seem really effective...
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#137 - 2015-03-21 12:59:00 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
That idea does not seem really effective...


We're never going to succeed, the nobility is in trying. Additionally, the Federation is a dynamic economic and cultural powerhouse, we're doing just great!
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#138 - 2015-03-21 13:01:22 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
The Federation holds at it's core the most noble of ideas: to end suffering, real, actual suffering, can you say the same?

Even sansha supporters can say the same.
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#139 - 2015-03-21 13:56:09 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

Even sansha supporters can say the same.


Even Blood Raiders claim a monopoly on God.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#140 - 2015-03-21 14:07:18 UTC
The Federation proudly, and loudly proclaims it wishes to protect freedom, yet it still holds the Caldari home planet under occupation. I guess those core values only go so far.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"