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Can we get back to New Eden characters instead of WoD clones?

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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#141 - 2011-12-22 21:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium
CCP karkur wrote:

  • Do you think players in general would be in favor of allowing bloodline changes, or are there just a few souls that are unhappy with their heritage?

    • Bloodline and or race. I've said this multiple times. These things no longer have any tie to attribute, and only a scant tie to starting skills. Which makes them cosmetic, and something cosmetic should be changable. You want to charge aurum or isk or USD, whatever. Just make the option available, please.

    Yeah yeah, I know it shouldn't matter. Space barbies don't belong in the game, blah blah, whatever. Don't listen to the haters CCP, I'm willing to gamble a lot more would change if the option was open then are letting on.

    By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
    Riall
    Doomheim
    #142 - 2011-12-22 21:14:29 UTC
    It would also be nice if we could have a closer match between what we see when we take the portrait and what we get back from the studio when they've "developed" it:

    Server render alongside client render

    As you can see, there are clipping issues with the hair going through the cheek, the collarbone and the clothing in the server render, but these aren't expected based on what the client shows. Also the lighting ends up being very different, as you can see. The server render is higher quality, but the client render is far closer to what I wanted.

    [center] "Buy PLEX, don't be a space butt"[/center]

    [center] Keepin' it... me.[/center]

    Liam Mirren
    #143 - 2011-12-22 21:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
    CCP karkur wrote:
  • Do you think players in general would be in favor of allowing bloodline changes, or are there just a few souls that are unhappy with their heritage?

    • Many people chose their race&bloodline based on looks and character concept (not counting the Achuras of old ofcourse), they CHOSE their looks. All of a sudden, because of something that's out of their control, they are being forced into a new look that may not be to their liking or fit their character background/ideas. Being allowed a bloodline change (or perhaps even more radical a race change) would give people the option to at least somewhat influence the changes that were forced onto them. I'm fairly sure many people feel alienated from their character right now due to things out of their control and allowing for a change would certainly be a show of good will and make players more at ease with their chars.

    apart from that, the new avatars, bloodlines, looks and clothing, the whole FEEL of the avatars needs to be reworked. I know you're not going to like this answer but I really do feel that putting in more effort into going back to the racial&bloodline roots, iterating on them beyond just some clothing only, is the way to go. It will take a lot of effort from CCP and it, seemingly, won't do anything but I really do think that if you want customers to commit to your product long term you need to have them identify with their character. Better options, more options, more in line with the old looks&feel would certainly help with that.

    Aesthetics matter.

    Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
    Pierced Brosmen
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #144 - 2011-12-23 15:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Pierced Brosmen
    I would really like to see some more variations both race/blodline specific but also general variation on facial tattoos... Also, having smaller tattoos and scars that can be placed freely so each player can better customize them based on visibility and personal preference would be ideal... by that there should also be a possibility to combine several tattoos and scars and not just be limited to one of each.

    Body/arm/hand tattoos and piercings would also be much appreciated.

    However, my absolute biggest wish for improving the character customization is (what has already been mentioned before) that you should be able to customize your character without having to make a new portrait. The portrait is just that, a snapshot of your character at a certain point in time and shouldn't represent what you are wearing at any given time (the full body viewer does that just fine). If the player feels like making a new portrait, then that should be optional, but never mandatory like it is today.
    I have got new clothes for one of my alts (all bought with free AUR), but can't put them on cause I am currently unable to get the portrait to mach the existing one wich I am quite satisfied with and want to keep. Unless I can get the look and feel to match or unless I can change the clothes without changing the portrait (they won't show up on the portrait anyways), the clothes stays in the hangar...

    [Edit] And one more thing... It is fully understandable that when you clone jump, any NEX items will stay with the clone you jumped out of... But every time I clone jump (haven't done that in a while though so it might have been fixed) my hair color changes to blonde, wich was what I had originally and i have to change it back wich I find very annoying. This even happens when i jump back to the previous clone. All changes you do using standard clothes/color/makeup options should go with you when you clone jump... Only the NEX items should stay behind IMHO.
    CCP karkur
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #145 - 2011-12-23 16:05:31 UTC
    Pierced Brosmen wrote:
    I have got new clothes for one of my alts (all bought with free AUR), but can't put them on cause I am currently unable to get the portrait to mach the existing one wich I am quite satisfied with and want to keep. Unless I can get the look and feel to match or unless I can change the clothes without changing the portrait (they won't show up on the portrait anyways), the clothes stays in the hangar...

    [Edit] And one more thing... It is fully understandable that when you clone jump, any NEX items will stay with the clone you jumped out of... But every time I clone jump (haven't done that in a while though so it might have been fixed) my hair color changes to blonde, wich was what I had originally and i have to change it back wich I find very annoying. This even happens when i jump back to the previous clone. All changes you do using standard clothes/color/makeup options should go with you when you clone jump... Only the NEX items should stay behind IMHO.
    We changed this in Crucible, now you just have one appearance, and that is the appearance you see in the portrait, and the clothes you are wearing when you clone jump travel with you.

    If you go to take a new portrait, in what way can you not match it to the existing one?
    The same camera settings, lighting, pose and background should all be loaded. To be honest, I doubt that you'll get your wish of multiple appearances (one for portrait and one for avatar), but you should be able to get a pretty much the same picture after taking another portrait wearing your new clothes. (iirc, when the server renders the portraits, the character does not animate, so even if your local copy looks a little bit different than before, it might be the same after the server has rendered it).

    CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
    Shukuzen Kiraa
    F4G Wild Weasel
    #146 - 2011-12-23 16:21:01 UTC
    Accessories for characters would be great to have...more sci fi type things. Mainly I would really really REALLY like the old minmatar breathing masks we used to have(but for all races, maybe unique designs for each race)
    Vincent Athena
    Photosynth
    #147 - 2011-12-23 16:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
    Some functionality we will need in the future, once art assets are in place: More slots.

    Hats
    Eye-wear we got
    Earrings, as a separate slot, along with other facial wear slots
    Necklace, remembering people can wear more than one
    Pin or broach
    Rings, remembering we got 10 fingers
    Bracelets, both at wrist and the upper arm, remembering we got 2 arms
    Belt
    Ankle bracelet
    Backpack

    We do not need all these slots now, but having them in the code ready to turn on once the art assets can be made would save time.

    Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

    Frozen fanfiction
    Gogela
    Epic Ganking Time
    CODE.
    #148 - 2011-12-23 16:44:50 UTC
    CCP karkur wrote:
    hey everyone,
    since you are all here to talk about the character creator I wanted to ask you a few questionsSmile.

    • When you go through the character creator, is there anything that you find confusing or unclear and could be improved?
    • Did you all notice the "tucking" options, that you can randomize the whole character (and each group), and toggle the clothes off?
    • Now we have only facial tattoos... would body tattoos be something you would be interested in (and then how interested), even though you cannot see them in the portrait?
    • A few people have asked for normal glasses... would that be something you would be interested in?
    • Did anyone have problems with the body modifications, and if so, what did you have problems with?
    • Are there any small usability issues that bothering you in the character creator?
    • Do you think players in general would be in favor of allowing bloodline changes, or are there just a few souls that are unhappy with their heritage?
    • Any more suggestions? (other than "hey, we want more racial clothing" and "hey, we want no clothing restrictions").

    (I've been looking at the character creator for so long that it makes perfect sense to meP, but it would be great to get some input from you guys... and these are just questions, not promises that everything you suggest will be doneLol)


    • No
    • Yes
    • Body tatoos would be sweet, particularly the arms and neck since that's all you can see anyway.
    • Goggles are prescription.
    • No
    • I am unaware of anyone who cares at all about bloodlines, so yes I'm sure they would be in favor and no-one will care.
    • Other suggestion: Before you do ANYTHING with characters.... before you give them extended lashes, makeup, or anything else, get establishments up and going. These character models are currently worthless if they just hang out in the CQ all the time.

    Signatures should be used responsibly...
    Pierced Brosmen
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #149 - 2011-12-23 16:45:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Pierced Brosmen
    CCP karkur wrote:
    If you go to take a new portrait, in what way can you not match it to the existing one?
    The same camera settings, lighting, pose and background should all be loaded. To be honest, I doubt that you'll get your wish of multiple appearances (one for portrait and one for avatar), but you should be able to get a pretty much the same picture after taking another portrait wearing your new clothes. (iirc, when the server renders the portraits, the character does not animate, so even if your local copy looks a little bit different than before, it might be the same after the server has rendered it).


    What I can't manage to match up is the hair. In the original render the hair passes right behind the eye closest to the camera (portrait is a close-up of the face), while when doing the new portrait with the same pose, the hair covers the eye, and I whould have to turn the head for the eye to be visible, wich kinda ruins the look I want for the portrait. It might be that it's due to differences in how the client and the server renders the hair, but I'm not willing to risk making a new portrait and then hope the server renders it the way I want it.

    CCP karkur wrote:
    To be honest, I doubt that you'll get your wish of multiple appearances (one for portrait and one for avatar), but you should be able to get a pretty much the same picture after taking another portrait wearing your new clothes.

    Do you take a new picture for your passport every time you change clothes?
    Zimmy Zeta
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #150 - 2011-12-23 16:48:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Pierced Brosmen wrote:
    I have got new clothes for one of my alts (all bought with free AUR), but can't put them on cause I am currently unable to get the portrait to mach the existing one wich I am quite satisfied with and want to keep. Unless I can get the look and feel to match or unless I can change the clothes without changing the portrait (they won't show up on the portrait anyways), the clothes stays in the hangar...

    [Edit] And one more thing... It is fully understandable that when you clone jump, any NEX items will stay with the clone you jumped out of... But every time I clone jump (haven't done that in a while though so it might have been fixed) my hair color changes to blonde, wich was what I had originally and i have to change it back wich I find very annoying. This even happens when i jump back to the previous clone. All changes you do using standard clothes/color/makeup options should go with you when you clone jump... Only the NEX items should stay behind IMHO.
    We changed this in Crucible, now you just have one appearance, and that is the appearance you see in the portrait, and the clothes you are wearing when you clone jump travel with you.

    If you go to take a new portrait, in what way can you not match it to the existing one?
    The same camera settings, lighting, pose and background should all be loaded. To be honest, I doubt that you'll get your wish of multiple appearances (one for portrait and one for avatar), but you should be able to get a pretty much the same picture after taking another portrait wearing your new clothes. (iirc, when the server renders the portraits, the character does not animate, so even if your local copy looks a little bit different than before, it might be the same after the server has rendered it).


    Actually, there is a little random factor, especially with lights/shadows. You do not really notice it in the editor, but when you are done and the program compresses the picture to a smaller size, those tiny things may show up. Some random shadow effect made the small portrait of Zimmy have a really creepy chelsea smile that did not show up in the large version of the portrait. After the crucible changes it was gone and I tried a whole evening in vain to bring it back.

    I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
    CCP karkur
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #151 - 2011-12-23 17:10:35 UTC
    Pierced Brosmen wrote:
    CCP karkur wrote:
    To be honest, I doubt that you'll get your wish of multiple appearances (one for portrait and one for avatar), but you should be able to get a pretty much the same picture after taking another portrait wearing your new clothes.
    Do you take a new picture for your passport every time you change clothes?
    Yes... it's a big hassle Ugh

    No, I do know what you mean, and I'll mention this to my co-workers, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
    And we should look into those small difference in the portraits, so we get closer to what you see is what you get.

    CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
    Dr Karsun
    Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
    #152 - 2011-12-23 17:16:20 UTC
    I personally love the new system. The faces are unique enough if you work on them. Also, the clothing will come in time, once the 0.0 carebears will finally dock up and stop crying that WiS is useless (which it isn't).

    "Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
    icechip
    Apathy Unleashed
    #153 - 2011-12-23 17:47:00 UTC
    Even tho i love my char / epic Avatar, I used to have blue skin, why my name is icechipRoll
    Pierced Brosmen
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #154 - 2011-12-23 18:07:42 UTC
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Yes... it's a big hassle Ugh

    No, I do know what you mean, and I'll mention this to my co-workers, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
    And we should look into those small difference in the portraits, so we get closer to what you see is what you get.


    Thanks for at least considering this Smile
    I think that for change of clothes there should not be a mandatory requirement to make a new portrait, but when changing identity defining characteristics (anything that affects the face, like hair, beard, tattoos, scars, piercings, glasses, etc.) there should be a new portrait

    When regarding my alt, I have identified the propable cause being that apparently the hair has been moved further to the front of the head, making the parts of the hair falling down along the face being more spaced out from the skin... this might be just a client render issue... i don't know.

    I have submitted a bug report (ID 124061) for you with screenshots of the particcular issue.
    Vincent Athena
    Photosynth
    #155 - 2011-12-23 19:36:26 UTC
    icechip wrote:
    Even tho i love my char / epic Avatar, I used to have blue skin, why my name is icechipRoll


    In the portrait page you can set blue lighting and make it look like you got blue skin. Its one of those features that's hard to find.

    Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

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    Ris Dnalor
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #156 - 2011-12-24 01:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ris Dnalor
    CCP karkur wrote:
    hey everyone,
    since you are all here to talk about the character creator I wanted to ask you a few questionsSmile.
    [list]
  • When you go through the character creator, is there anything that you find confusing or unclear and could be improved?


    • FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE THEM STAND STILL WHILE WE'RE CREATING THEM!! Whoever thought the making the character have a seizure was a good idea during creation was obviously sadistic. I mean, props for the evil, but make the hurting stop. Especially rough on slower graphics cards.

    Quote:
    Did you all notice the "tucking" options, that you can randomize the whole character (and each group), and toggle the clothes off?


    I did not notice those.


    Quote:
    Now we have only facial tattoos... would body tattoos be something you would be interested in (and then how interested), even though you cannot see them in the portrait?


    not unless you could see them around the clothing, meaning high-waters, shorts, sleeveless shirts, etc would be needed. But even then it's not all that interesting to me.


    PUTTING INTO TWO POSTS BECAUSE OF SILLY NO-MORE-THAN-FIVE-QUOTES-IN-A-POST-RULE.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

    EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

    • Qolde
    Ris Dnalor
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #157 - 2011-12-24 01:14:13 UTC
    Quote:
    A few people have asked for normal glasses... would that be something you would be interested in?


    no, if we can clone folks, I'd say we can buy a replacement eye if it goes bad. can't see needing glasses except as a fashion accessory.

    Quote:
    Did anyone have problems with the body modifications, and if so, what did you have problems with?


    no

    Quote:
    Are there any small usability issues that bothering you in the character creator?


    Aside from the character having the seizure described above, no.

    Quote:
    Do you think players in general would be in favor of allowing bloodline changes, or are there just a few souls that are unhappy with their heritage?


    I think you should be able to get a clone of any race / sex. I mean we're transferring consciousness to a freshly grown body here, right? Make it all available, for a fee of course. Maybe even something you could put in the NeX store, eh?

    Quote:
    Any more suggestions? (other than "hey, we want more racial clothing" and "hey, we want no clothing restrictions").


    I think hats would be cool :)

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

    EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

    • Qolde
    Pinkfluff
    Lone Wolf Supply Co.
    #158 - 2011-12-24 02:47:57 UTC
    Riall wrote:
    As you can see, there are clipping issues with the hair going through the cheek, the collarbone and the clothing in the server render, but these aren't expected based on what the client shows.


    I also had hair clipping issues, which I found rather disappointing considering the otherwise high quality of the character tool compared to what I've seen in other games. That's half the reason I changed to short hair.
    Nova Fox
    Novafox Shipyards
    #159 - 2011-12-24 03:14:39 UTC
    I suggested the closet suggestion where you save a 'clothing' fitting with a picture there.

    Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
    Sara XIII
    The Carnifex Corp
    #160 - 2011-12-24 03:36:23 UTC
    CCP karkur wrote:
    hey everyone,
    since you are all here to talk about the character creator I wanted to ask you a few questionsSmile.

    • When you go through the character creator, is there anything that you find confusing or unclear and could be improved?
    • Did you all notice the "tucking" options, that you can randomize the whole character (and each group), and toggle the clothes off?
    • Now we have only facial tattoos... would body tattoos be something you would be interested in (and then how interested), even though you cannot see them in the portrait?
    • A few people have asked for normal glasses... would that be something you would be interested in?
    • Did anyone have problems with the body modifications, and if so, what did you have problems with?
    • Are there any small usability issues that bothering you in the character creator?
    • Do you think players in general would be in favor of allowing bloodline changes, or are there just a few souls that are unhappy with their heritage?
    • Any more suggestions? (other than "hey, we want more racial clothing" and "hey, we want no clothing restrictions").

    (I've been looking at the character creator for so long that it makes perfect sense to meP, but it would be great to get some input from you guys... and these are just questions, not promises that everything you suggest will be doneLol)


    1) More options for customization of any type will always be welcome.
    2) Mouse over text when customizing the body. Eve is 55% populated by toons with large breasts and anorexic asses. A text could read: "This is the ass of a 40 year old crack-whore. Move your mouse to the right for more J-Lo. p.s. Women have hips adjust those too." P
    3) I want a GD Han Solo type pistol rig for my toon. Seriously, do it!

    Well done with character customization. Best I've ever seen! Big smile

    Between Ignorance and Wisdom