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Adjust the Bowhead for use in more WHs
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Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#1 - 2015-03-17 23:54:58 UTC
If the mass of the Bowhead was lowered to 500mil (from 640) it could fit through a hisec wandering into, say, a C3 shattered. If this could happen then it would create a viable platform for corps to "reside" in a shattered wormhole below C5.

This would create huge content and spur a gold rush and player boom. The ability to supply 1.3mil cubic meters of ships would allow a variety of strategies.

The lack of a high slot means no cloak, so anybody using one in a WH would have to be on their toes and it would present a valuable target to generate a need to defend and even more content.


This idea spawns from my personal observations of the shattered wormholes, and the fact that they are getting stuck on Sleeper data/relic and gas sites.

This is needed, or only the elite can clear these sites...the fact that C5 sites spawn in a C3 and that they have 4 battleships prevents the sites from being cleared in a timely manner (if ever).

Orcas are not up for the job, and too few would fly into a WH without a POS in an Orca. Bowhead for the win please :)
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2015-03-18 00:01:28 UTC
Aren't shattered holes supposed to be nigh impossible to live in by design?
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#3 - 2015-03-18 00:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayze Severasse
This still allows people to be ejected rather easily, but, would allow an "expedition" so to speak.

Also, as it would collapse the only hole in it could fit through, it would be incredibly risky, as it couldn't even leave until another large wandering was created.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-03-18 00:06:55 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Aren't shattered holes supposed to be nigh impossible to live in by design?


yes ccp went out of their way to make it as hard as they could i don't see them making it easier

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#5 - 2015-03-18 00:11:52 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Aren't shattered holes supposed to be nigh impossible to live in by design?


yes ccp went out of their way to make it as hard as they could i don't see them making it easier



Both replies are under the assumption that no POS means they don't want people to stay for any period of time...I assume as they want their game to flourish....that they intend to make it so elite monopolies cannot own with isk alone. But, instead make it only controllable with numbers in game!

Active players deserve a reward, this in turn helps game....
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2015-03-18 00:13:41 UTC
No, I'm pretty sure they outright stated that they didn't think people would live there, as a design goal.
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#7 - 2015-03-18 00:17:24 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
No, I'm pretty sure they outright stated that they didn't think people would live there, as a design goal.



I would like to see a reference to that, as the rumor around the community is that they didn't want people in wormholes to begin with, yet here they are updating POS roles and doing WH revamps.

CCP wants them to be active...period. Nomadic operations in a WH is nothing like a POS. Do you believe they released these updates to have the general consensus in the community to be that they are a novelty and no attention should be given to them??

I reject your premise!
Arla Sarain
#8 - 2015-03-18 00:33:09 UTC
Doesn't sound like the point is to make it possible to live in shattered wormholes, just take an expedition into one. You pack all the essentials into a bowhead and head out with your group. Bowhead closes the first WH it finds - kinda defeats the purpose? How many holes will have entrances where the group has both eyes on.
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#9 - 2015-03-18 00:38:07 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Doesn't sound like the point is to make it possible to live in shattered wormholes, just take an expedition into one. You pack all the essentials into a bowhead and head out with your group. Bowhead closes the first WH it finds - kinda defeats the purpose? How many holes will have entrances where the group has both eyes on.



Indeed, the large wandering is the only one that would support it's movement. There is an extra static to Kspace and then the normal statics provided by class. There are then a multitude of punch-ins (k162) and w/e wandering comes through.

The Bowhead would have to wait for another wandering back to Kspace or go through W space.
Many dangers....risk/reward would be balanced
E1ev1n
Big Sister Exploration
#10 - 2015-03-18 00:38:46 UTC
Jayze Severasse wrote:
If the mass of the Bowhead was lowered to 500mil (from 640) it could fit through a hisec wandering into, say, a C3 shattered. If this could happen then it would create a viable platform for corps to "reside" in a shattered wormhole below C5.

This would create huge content and spur a gold rush and player boom. The ability to supply 1.3mil cubic meters of ships would allow a variety of strategies.

The lack of a high slot means no cloak, so anybody using one in a WH would have to be on their toes and it would present a valuable target to generate a need to defend and even more content.


This idea spawns from my personal observations of the shattered wormholes, and the fact that they are getting stuck on Sleeper data/relic and gas sites.

This is needed, or only the elite can clear these sites...the fact that C5 sites spawn in a C3 and that they have 4 battleships prevents the sites from being cleared in a timely manner (if ever).

Orcas are not up for the job, and too few would fly into a WH without a POS in an Orca. Bowhead for the win please :)

This really doesn't seem like a well thought out idea. You want to sit in a freighter in a Wormhole? With no idea who is all in the wormhole and you now have several billions worth of T3s in it as well as a fleet of RR domis and some salvage ships as well as scanning ships, extra fittings, and then of course the salvage. Are you absolutely sure that you want to be that vulnerable?

Did I mention local only works if you chatter in it?

Now on top of the above box of text, your corp members want their ships to do sites or PVP, but you forgot to sub the freighter account or you have to be at work no question and your corp members need you to give ships to them. This seems like a losing situation with no POS to drop ships and gear at, at least with a Carrier you have some defences and can maybe fight your way out of a Paper Bag, but please, do let me know what kind of fighting capacity a Bowhead freighter has, I'm interested.
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#11 - 2015-03-18 00:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayze Severasse
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:
If the mass of the Bowhead was lowered to 500mil (from 640) it could fit through a hisec wandering into, say, a C3 shattered. If this could happen then it would create a viable platform for corps to "reside" in a shattered wormhole below C5.

This would create huge content and spur a gold rush and player boom. The ability to supply 1.3mil cubic meters of ships would allow a variety of strategies.

The lack of a high slot means no cloak, so anybody using one in a WH would have to be on their toes and it would present a valuable target to generate a need to defend and even more content.


This idea spawns from my personal observations of the shattered wormholes, and the fact that they are getting stuck on Sleeper data/relic and gas sites.

This is needed, or only the elite can clear these sites...the fact that C5 sites spawn in a C3 and that they have 4 battleships prevents the sites from being cleared in a timely manner (if ever).

Orcas are not up for the job, and too few would fly into a WH without a POS in an Orca. Bowhead for the win please :)

This really doesn't seem like a well thought out idea. You want to sit in a freighter in a Wormhole? With no idea who is all in the wormhole and you now have several billions worth of T3s in it as well as a fleet of RR domis and some salvage ships as well as scanning ships, extra fittings, and then of course the salvage. Are you absolutely sure that you want to be that vulnerable?

Did I mention local only works if you chatter in it?

Now on top of the above box of text, your corp members want their ships to do sites or PVP, but you forgot to sub the freighter account or you have to be at work no question and your corp members need you to give ships to them. This seems like a losing situation with no POS to drop ships and gear at, at least with a Carrier you have some defences and can maybe fight your way out of a Paper Bag, but please, do let me know what kind of fighting capacity a Bowhead freighter has, I'm interested.


Having lived in wormholes, having then solo'd my own C2...having done over a billion in shattered explo....I actually have thought about it alot. A handful of bookmarks allows you to hop off grid...etc, etc, etc,...anyway. It would be a dedicated supply pilot, a daily clearing of sites, w/e. You actually help me out...it will still be very difficult and warrants one high slot for a cloak :)

P.S. The Orca is for T3, the larger capacity would allow larger harder hitting ships as only us noobs (think Battle cruisers and battleships) are willing to risk big to win big :P
E1ev1n
Big Sister Exploration
#12 - 2015-03-18 00:56:19 UTC
Jayze Severasse wrote:
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:
If the mass of the Bowhead was lowered to 500mil (from 640) it could fit through a hisec wandering into, say, a C3 shattered. If this could happen then it would create a viable platform for corps to "reside" in a shattered wormhole below C5.

This would create huge content and spur a gold rush and player boom. The ability to supply 1.3mil cubic meters of ships would allow a variety of strategies.

The lack of a high slot means no cloak, so anybody using one in a WH would have to be on their toes and it would present a valuable target to generate a need to defend and even more content.


This idea spawns from my personal observations of the shattered wormholes, and the fact that they are getting stuck on Sleeper data/relic and gas sites.

This is needed, or only the elite can clear these sites...the fact that C5 sites spawn in a C3 and that they have 4 battleships prevents the sites from being cleared in a timely manner (if ever).

Orcas are not up for the job, and too few would fly into a WH without a POS in an Orca. Bowhead for the win please :)

This really doesn't seem like a well thought out idea. You want to sit in a freighter in a Wormhole? With no idea who is all in the wormhole and you now have several billions worth of T3s in it as well as a fleet of RR domis and some salvage ships as well as scanning ships, extra fittings, and then of course the salvage. Are you absolutely sure that you want to be that vulnerable?

Did I mention local only works if you chatter in it?

Now on top of the above box of text, your corp members want their ships to do sites or PVP, but you forgot to sub the freighter account or you have to be at work no question and your corp members need you to give ships to them. This seems like a losing situation with no POS to drop ships and gear at, at least with a Carrier you have some defences and can maybe fight your way out of a Paper Bag, but please, do let me know what kind of fighting capacity a Bowhead freighter has, I'm interested.


Having lived in wormholes, having then solo'd my own C2...having done over a billion in shattered explo....I actually have thought about it alot. A handful of bookmarks allows you to hop off grid...etc, etc, etc,...anyway. It would be a dedicated supply pilot, a daily clearing of sites, w/e. You actually help me out...it will still be very difficult :)


Even you yourself said that they can't fit a cloak so evidently you are keenly aware you a vulnerable to combat probes as well as socket closures while moving and remaining in space somewhere upon being DC'ed so I would assume that its also possible given your experience with Wormholes appears to be Low Class wormholes, that you may have never run a C4 site or higher before or understand the DPS needed to clear them or the amount of support needed to clear them, is this true?

It seems more likely that your fleet would have more fun living in RR Domis in a shattered hole with Mobile Depots to store gear and loot as well as to refit for situational combat. Then you are everything, the logi, the DPS, the scanning alt and the salvager and you could have enough DPS to do a C5 site and survive, rather than put it all in one ship that can be relatively easily destroyed. ISK vs Risk says putting everything in one non-combat, non-cloaky ship in a wormhole is not going to be a lucrative situation but rather a disastrous one. As much as being able to switch to a different ship would be helpful in some situations, if its about making isk you are putting a lot of faith in that freighter pilot and his ability to be quick to log when any wormhole corp shows up in the hole, usually when that freighter is tackled and dead, along with all your shiny ratting/pvp ships because he fell asleep while waiting for Joe Somebody to log in and get their quota of Ship for the Day.
E1ev1n
Big Sister Exploration
#13 - 2015-03-18 01:01:35 UTC
Jayze Severasse wrote:
P.S. The Orca is for T3, the larger capacity would allow larger harder hitting ships as only us noobs (think Battle cruisers and battleships) are willing to risk big to win big :P

I'm thinking that if My Kronos struggles a bit doing High Class Gas sites solo, you will likely feel disappointed by how many ships you lose trying to run the C5 spawns in a C3 but by all means give it a go, still you likely would be losing that freighter and whatever is inside it within a week of "living" in a shattered hole.
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#14 - 2015-03-18 01:02:11 UTC
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:
If the mass of the Bowhead was lowered to 500mil (from 640) it could fit through a hisec wandering into, say, a C3 shattered. If this could happen then it would create a viable platform for corps to "reside" in a shattered wormhole below C5.

This would create huge content and spur a gold rush and player boom. The ability to supply 1.3mil cubic meters of ships would allow a variety of strategies.

The lack of a high slot means no cloak, so anybody using one in a WH would have to be on their toes and it would present a valuable target to generate a need to defend and even more content.


This idea spawns from my personal observations of the shattered wormholes, and the fact that they are getting stuck on Sleeper data/relic and gas sites.

This is needed, or only the elite can clear these sites...the fact that C5 sites spawn in a C3 and that they have 4 battleships prevents the sites from being cleared in a timely manner (if ever).

Orcas are not up for the job, and too few would fly into a WH without a POS in an Orca. Bowhead for the win please :)

This really doesn't seem like a well thought out idea. You want to sit in a freighter in a Wormhole? With no idea who is all in the wormhole and you now have several billions worth of T3s in it as well as a fleet of RR domis and some salvage ships as well as scanning ships, extra fittings, and then of course the salvage. Are you absolutely sure that you want to be that vulnerable?

Did I mention local only works if you chatter in it?

Now on top of the above box of text, your corp members want their ships to do sites or PVP, but you forgot to sub the freighter account or you have to be at work no question and your corp members need you to give ships to them. This seems like a losing situation with no POS to drop ships and gear at, at least with a Carrier you have some defences and can maybe fight your way out of a Paper Bag, but please, do let me know what kind of fighting capacity a Bowhead freighter has, I'm interested.


Having lived in wormholes, having then solo'd my own C2...having done over a billion in shattered explo....I actually have thought about it alot. A handful of bookmarks allows you to hop off grid...etc, etc, etc,...anyway. It would be a dedicated supply pilot, a daily clearing of sites, w/e. You actually help me out...it will still be very difficult :)


Even you yourself said that they can't fit a cloak so evidently you are keenly aware you a vulnerable to combat probes as well as socket closures while moving and remaining in space somewhere upon being DC'ed so I would assume that its also possible given your experience with Wormholes appears to be Low Class wormholes, that you may have never run a C4 site or higher before or understand the DPS needed to clear them or the amount of support needed to clear them, is this true?

It seems more likely that your fleet would have more fun living in RR Domis in a shattered hole with Mobile Depots to store gear and loot as well as to refit for situational combat. Then you are everything, the logi, the DPS, the scanning alt and the salvager and you could have enough DPS to do a C5 site and survive, rather than put it all in one ship that can be relatively easily destroyed. ISK vs Risk says putting everything in one non-combat, non-cloaky ship in a wormhole is not going to be a lucrative situation but rather a disastrous one. As much as being able to switch to a different ship would be helpful in some situations, if its about making isk you are putting a lot of faith in that freighter pilot and his ability to be quick to log when any wormhole corp shows up in the hole, usually when that freighter is tackled and dead, along with all your shiny ratting/pvp ships because he fell asleep while waiting for Joe Somebody to log in and get their quota of Ship for the Day.


Lets keep it on discussion, I know what I/we want to be able to do...as for probes, I already addressed that, it's called "safes" and once in you could use a mobile depot in a safe and put on a higgs and hop around to avoid scan downs...
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#15 - 2015-03-18 01:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayze Severasse
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:
P.S. The Orca is for T3, the larger capacity would allow larger harder hitting ships as only us noobs (think Battle cruisers and battleships) are willing to risk big to win big :P

I'm thinking that if My Kronos struggles a bit doing High Class Gas sites solo, you will likely feel disappointed by how many ships you lose trying to run the C5 spawns in a C3 but by all means give it a go, still you likely would be losing that freighter and whatever is inside it within a week of "living" in a shattered hole.


I can easily clear the 4 frigs in the vitals, it's the 4 battleships in the instrumentals that give me a hard time.
They are class 5 spawns in a class 3...the rats are C3 battleships, the gas is C5...I haven't been disappointed yet ;)

One battleship is just barely over the capacity of an Orca or believe it, I would try those too.
E1ev1n
Big Sister Exploration
#16 - 2015-03-18 01:09:37 UTC
Jayze Severasse wrote:

Lets keep it on discussion, I know what I/we want to be able to do...as for probes, I already addressed that, it's called "safes" and once in you could use a mobile depot in a safe and put on a higgs and hop around to avoid scan downs...

Yeah...I am absolutely 100% sure...Lol...you could try to avoid scan downs. Roll
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#17 - 2015-03-18 01:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayze Severasse
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:

Lets keep it on discussion, I know what I/we want to be able to do...as for probes, I already addressed that, it's called "safes" and once in you could use a mobile depot in a safe and put on a higgs and hop around to avoid scan downs...

Yeah...I am absolutely 100% sure...Lol...you could try to avoid scan downs. Roll



Most people don't even deploy combats normally in WHs. and it takes 1au to lock, so....the second u see combats u hop every chance u get??? This isn't known???

P.S. that's why its a fleet thing...hence "content" hence what I'm saying ;)
E1ev1n
Big Sister Exploration
#18 - 2015-03-18 01:16:37 UTC
Jayze Severasse wrote:
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:
P.S. The Orca is for T3, the larger capacity would allow larger harder hitting ships as only us noobs (think Battle cruisers and battleships) are willing to risk big to win big :P

I'm thinking that if My Kronos struggles a bit doing High Class Gas sites solo, you will likely feel disappointed by how many ships you lose trying to run the C5 spawns in a C3 but by all means give it a go, still you likely would be losing that freighter and whatever is inside it within a week of "living" in a shattered hole.


I can easily clear the 4 frigs in the vitals, it's the 4 battleships in the instrumentals that give me a hard time.
They are class 5 spawns in a class 3...the rats are C3 battleships, the gas is C5...I haven't been disappointed yet ;)

One battleship is just barely over the capacity of an Orca or believe it, I would try those too.

I am well aware what spawns in the Instrumentals. Why do you think C5 wormholes are classified as Dangerous Unknown or C6s are classified as Deadly Unkown? These Instrumental Core sites are the top end of the gas sites, if it were easy we'd all get in Merlins and Rifters to clear them, often it is easier to ninja what gas you can or run a RR Tengu fleet to clear them but the best way (50% guaranteed to avoid losses) is to drop a carrier on the site and maybe a Dread and a T3. You will not clear this with subcaps unless you are extremely good (experience necessary).
E1ev1n
Big Sister Exploration
#19 - 2015-03-18 01:20:27 UTC
Jayze Severasse wrote:
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:

Lets keep it on discussion, I know what I/we want to be able to do...as for probes, I already addressed that, it's called "safes" and once in you could use a mobile depot in a safe and put on a higgs and hop around to avoid scan downs...

Yeah...I am absolutely 100% sure...Lol...you could try to avoid scan downs. Roll



Most people don't even deploy combats normally in WHs. and it takes 1au to lock, so....the second u see combats u hop every chance u get??? This isn't known???

P.S. that's why its a fleet thing...hence "content" hence what I'm saying ;)

The second you see the combats we are already warping to you. Like I said its a freighter, the bigger it is the easier it is to scan down. It takes one pass to have a BS scanned and pointed how much longer would it take you to warp a Freighter?
Jayze Severasse
Divided by Zer0
#20 - 2015-03-18 01:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayze Severasse
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:
E1ev1n wrote:
Jayze Severasse wrote:

Lets keep it on discussion, I know what I/we want to be able to do...as for probes, I already addressed that, it's called "safes" and once in you could use a mobile depot in a safe and put on a higgs and hop around to avoid scan downs...

Yeah...I am absolutely 100% sure...Lol...you could try to avoid scan downs. Roll



Most people don't even deploy combats normally in WHs. and it takes 1au to lock, so....the second u see combats u hop every chance u get??? This isn't known???

P.S. that's why its a fleet thing...hence "content" hence what I'm saying ;)

The second you see the combats we are already warping to you. Like I said its a freighter, the bigger it is the easier it is to scan down. It takes one pass to have a BS scanned and pointed how much longer would it take you to warp a Freighter?



Recon the holes?
Need for multiple ships...stealthy recon and DPS? what?

Mobile scan inhibitor?
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