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Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

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Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#361 - 2015-03-12 10:20:13 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
but with the LP reward these missions are worth too much to just ignore.


then it´s worth to train into gal/cal frigs too.

ok it´s faction and you need cal frig but easy to use.

[Succubus, burner dramiel improve]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Gistum B-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

just burn away. tracking is no issue. 294 dps cold.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2015-03-12 16:30:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Ploing wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
but with the LP reward these missions are worth too much to just ignore.


then it´s worth to train into gal/cal frigs too.

ok it´s faction and you need cal frig but easy to use.

[Succubus, burner dramiel improve]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Gistum B-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

just burn away. tracking is no issue. 294 dps cold.


I have caldari frigs 5, just no missile skills. Are the faction mods necessary? I'm already going to need a stable of AF's/pirate frigs fit specifically for burners...these faction fits are like 200M apiece.

What do you mean by burn away? What's the optimal engagement range? Is 1mn AB enough to burn away even with succubus speed bonus? Do I kite within scram range or burn out further?
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#363 - 2015-03-12 17:35:34 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


I have caldari frigs 5, just no missile skills. Are the faction mods necessary? I'm already going to need a stable of AF's/pirate frigs fit specifically for burners...these faction fits are like 200M apiece.

What do you mean by burn away? What's the optimal engagement range? Is 1mn AB enough to burn away even with succubus speed bonus? Do I kite within scram range or burn out further?


you can swap the faction sink for t2 when you use meta4 guns. hardener is cheap, and booster could be downgraded to c type.

as u land just burn straight forward. due to the ab u are slightly faster than the dram. i kite him ussually at 3K
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2015-03-14 00:04:48 UTC
Team burner: Hawk

Finished it 3 times i see that it uses defenders (this is not given in online spreadsheet tho).
Guessing its chance to use defender about 45-50%. IMHO too much for missiles.

Makes me wonder which weapon/ammo would be best here.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#365 - 2015-03-14 03:51:22 UTC
Can a Retribution beat the Serpentis Burner? Is there any way?

I think with sufficient pimp I can probably permatank it. I have slaves so I'm able to hold out for the long haul. RoF implant too.

What can I do?
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#366 - 2015-03-15 05:25:43 UTC
Twice tonight I've been tackled and destroyed while kiting the burner Jaguar in my Retribution. The first time I blamed the wine, refit and gave it more attention... Not enough?

My Retribution does 236 paper dps 2:1 em:therm and 21/26 opti/fall. I scoot around at 1400 m/s while bringing the burst into 18-22 km. I like to manually fly this bit. The ship definitely responds faster, and I know what I'm getting, and not wearing out the mouse.

Anyway tonight we reached the edge of the playground while taking down the second Burst. I turned in to follow the Jag, and he started a weird vertical orbit. He really didn't seem to care where I was, he was orbiting something while going 1000m/s. I found this very annoying and difficult to maintain distance with. Several times I lost lock.

Both times I got him into 22km and 3 seconds later I'm tackled. It's like he flips a switch and straight intercepts me. Anyone else seen this? How do you handle this guy?

I've taken the Jag and Hawk sever times each in this setup, and this is a first.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#367 - 2015-03-15 15:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Little Kicks wrote:
Twice tonight I've been tackled and destroyed while kiting the burner Jaguar in my Retribution. The first time I blamed the wine, refit and gave it more attention... Not enough?

My Retribution does 236 paper dps 2:1 em:therm and 21/26 opti/fall. I scoot around at 1400 m/s while bringing the burst into 18-22 km. I like to manually fly this bit. The ship definitely responds faster, and I know what I'm getting, and not wearing out the mouse.

Anyway tonight we reached the edge of the playground while taking down the second Burst. I turned in to follow the Jag, and he started a weird vertical orbit. He really didn't seem to care where I was, he was orbiting something while going 1000m/s. I found this very annoying and difficult to maintain distance with. Several times I lost lock.

Both times I got him into 22km and 3 seconds later I'm tackled. It's like he flips a switch and straight intercepts me. Anyone else seen this? How do you handle this guy?

I've taken the Jag and Hawk sever times each in this setup, and this is a first.


As i said
Quote:
Be advised one mistake in range control aka getting webbed (web range is 14km) by the Burner Assault Ship = instant death, no escape. Use the kiting setups on your own risk.
Make sure your not heated AB speed is above the Assault Burner speed, set keep at range for your highest DPS, adjust your speed manually to match the Burner speed to avoid fubars.


A MWD fit is the best option especially vs the Burner Jaguar, if you can use a Garmur use it.

About the "weird" Burner Jaguar behaviour, it happens sometimes, don't know what triggers it but if i had to guess Player is getting close to be off grid or even a time limit.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#368 - 2015-03-15 21:41:05 UTC
so true, beware in teamburners with ab only. specially the jag has anoying moves.
stoicfaux
#369 - 2015-03-16 22:56:33 UTC
Ugh, I loathe the Worm Burner. You're almost certain to burn out the MWD getting into scram range or in my case, the MWD survives and the cap booster dies from heat. On the plus side, I didn't need those nine extra cap boosters in my cargo anyway. Just two sufficed.

A T2 fit can work, but I'm tempted to swap the Mag Stab for another Overdrive.

MWD: 4,154m/s OH with my skills (4308m/s with all Vs.) Note to self, need more Vs.
319 DPS with void. 364 w/ OH. Hmmmm, void at 0.000000 transversal....
237 Tank versus Worm.

[Enyo, Burner Worm T2]
Energized Kinetic Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Overdrive Injector System II
Small Armor Repairer II

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
Small Auxiliary Thrusters II

Acolyte I x1

Party is starting...
[ 2015.03.16 01:06:42 ] (combat) Warp scramble attempt from Burner Worm to you!

MWD'ing into range...
[ 2015.03.16 01:07:26 ] (notify) Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I has run out of charges
[ 2015.03.16 01:07:26 ] (notify) Loading the Capacitor Booster Charge into the Capacitor Booster; this will take approximately 10.00 seconds.
...
Finally in scram range!
[ 2015.03.16 01:07:36 ] (combat) 140 from Burner Worm - Dread Guristas Scourge Light Missile - Hits
[ 2015.03.16 01:07:46 ] (combat) 93 from Burner Worm - Dread Guristas Scourge Light Missile - Hits
[ 2015.03.16 01:07:46 ] (combat) Warp scramble attempt from you to Burner Worm

Wait, what!? Cap booster can't be offline, I still have boosters left!
[ 2015.03.16 01:07:49 ] (notify) You can't activate this module because it is offline. You can try and turn it online by right clicking on it and choosing "Put Online" in the contextual menu.
...
Resigned to fate...
[ 2015.03.16 01:07:56 ] (combat) 205 from Burner Worm - Dread Guristas Scourge Light Missile - Hits
[ 2015.03.16 01:08:02 ] (notify) External factors are preventing your warp drive from responding to this command.
...
The end is nigh...
[ 2015.03.16 01:08:30 ] (notify) Small Armor Repairer II requires 40.0 units of charge. The capacitor has only 23.8 units.
...
Acolyte I buys me ten seconds of not having to burn cap repping as Worm decides to kill it.
[ 2015.03.16 01:09:03 ] (notify) Drones engaging Burner Worm
...
A moment of silence for my brave Acolyte I drone. *sniffle*
[ 2015.03.16 01:09:13 ] (combat) Warp scramble attempt from Burner Worm to you!
...
alt.burner.worm.die.die.die
[ 2015.03.16 01:09:32 ] (combat) 54 to Burner Worm - Light Neutron Blaster II - Smashes


So... are there any T2 fits that are less stressful?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#370 - 2015-03-16 23:25:12 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:

So... are there any T2 fits that are less stressful?


The best Minnie fit I could come up with is a RFF, and it definitely favors faction/deadspace over T2. Not too many ships can get up to that speed and still boast a robust tank. The merge is stressful, even in the RFF. If you can tank it for a minute, bring a long a mobile depot and a mcs or second mwd. At least then you can practice a few times.
Burke Blanc
Radar Shack
#371 - 2015-03-17 01:43:23 UTC
Ok guys. I could really use some advice on the "team" burner missions. I saw in this thread someone mentioned they were able to solo them in a Kestrel fit with ECM. I've been using that fit and it works great for the most part(I've beat all 4 types with it). My problem is sometimes it takes a while to down the first logi. It seems like it's all RNG if I can get my ECM to stick a few times in a row, etc.(I heat it sometimes to give me an edge)

Someone in a channel had linked me a Tristan fit, with 2 ECM modules and using warrior IIs. I also rigged that one up with +ECM strength rigs. That fit works pretty good on the Jaguar team, but all the other teams I tried with it just smash my warrior IIs before I can even pull them back to my drone bay.

I'm looking for a not super blingy kiting fit(like under 50 mil total-ish) that can do a better job than a kestrel kiting the burner teams. I can fly all the assault frigs and T2 for all drones and light weapon types. Anyone have any suggestions? Even some improvements to the kestrel fit?

I guess if I have to pony up for a worm or a garmur that can kite them much more efficiently and are "low risk", I'd be ok with it, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Here is the kestrel fit I use for the Vengeance team. Once I get the logi down, that is the team burner that takes me the longest to get him down. I seem to miss that one more than the others.

[Kestrel, Burner]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
'Umbra' White Noise ECM
[empty med slot]

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile

Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#372 - 2015-03-17 08:13:45 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Ugh, I loathe the Worm Burner. You're almost certain to burn out the MWD getting into scram range or in my case, the MWD survives and the cap booster dies from heat. On the plus side, I didn't need those nine extra cap boosters in my cargo anyway. Just two sufficed.

A T2 fit can work, but I'm tempted to swap the Mag Stab for another Overdrive.

MWD: 4,154m/s OH with my skills (4308m/s with all Vs.) Note to self, need more Vs.
319 DPS with void. 364 w/ OH. Hmmmm, void at 0.000000 transversal....
237 Tank versus Worm.
[Enyo, Burner Worm T2]


Using an Enyo does work, you have 2 options to make it easier:
1. Use a Deadspace MWD, they are rather cheap like 30m. Difference is a Meta 4 MWD can take at best 3 overheat cycles, a deadspace one can take at best 5. Put nanite paste in your cargo, in case you fail to tackle the Burner Worm, repair your MWD and scram. You should be able to tank the Burner Worm with enough cap sticks for a long time.
Change your med slot arrangement to
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
In case you burn out the scram, you still have cap and can tank and get off grid by just MWD out to +250km.

2. Use a Daredevil :D
Steps are:
1. Acc gate -> Start both Kin Harderner, then OH the Deadspace one, get in
2. Align to the Burner Worm, start MWD without heat, then OH for the 2nd cycle
3. Start reps about when your 1st MWD cycle finish, let the reps ontinuously run
4. When your OH kicks in deactivate your MWD before the 3rd cycle.
5. Tackle the Burner Worm at 11-10km displayed range (scram range is only 9km i know but with your speed and server ticks), keep at range 1.4km
6. Dead Burner Worm

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#373 - 2015-03-17 08:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Burke Blanc wrote:
Ok guys. I could really use some advice on the "team" burner missions. I saw in this thread someone mentioned they were able to solo them in a Kestrel fit with ECM. I've been using that fit and it works great for the most part(I've beat all 4 types with it). My problem is sometimes it takes a while to down the first logi. It seems like it's all RNG if I can get my ECM to stick a few times in a row, etc.(I heat it sometimes to give me an edge)

Someone in a channel had linked me a Tristan fit, with 2 ECM modules and using warrior IIs. I also rigged that one up with +ECM strength rigs. That fit works pretty good on the Jaguar team, but all the other teams I tried with it just smash my warrior IIs before I can even pull them back to my drone bay.

I'm looking for a not super blingy kiting fit(like under 50 mil total-ish) that can do a better job than a kestrel kiting the burner teams. I can fly all the assault frigs and T2 for all drones and light weapon types. Anyone have any suggestions? Even some improvements to the kestrel fit?

I guess if I have to pony up for a worm or a garmur that can kite them much more efficiently and are "low risk", I'd be ok with it, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Here is the kestrel fit I use for the Vengeance team. Once I get the logi down, that is the team burner that takes me the longest to get him down. I seem to miss that one more than the others.


In short forget the Kestrel, use any other suitable ship, not the Tristan. Vengeance has defender missiles, so a lot of your missile DPS is taken out. The least bling variation is a Harpy.
Alternative kiting setups Used Alternatives: Harpy, Retribution

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Burke Blanc
Radar Shack
#374 - 2015-03-17 17:07:34 UTC
Does the harpy kite fit work for the jaguar burner team? Just looking at the speed of the harpy with the AB non-heated and the speed of the jaguar makes me worried the jaguar would catch it.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#375 - 2015-03-17 17:26:38 UTC
Burke Blanc wrote:
Does the harpy kite fit work for the jaguar burner team? Just looking at the speed of the harpy with the AB non-heated and the speed of the jaguar makes me worried the jaguar would catch it.


You identified the problem, you could fix it by getting more speed (imps etc) but i won't recommend it because the Harpy is using kin/therm vs the Burner Jag not a good choice. So either get a Retribution with extra speed or better a Garmur.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#376 - 2015-03-17 18:38:32 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:

2. Use a Daredevil :D
Steps are:
1. Acc gate -> Start both Kin Harderner, then OH the Deadspace one, get in
2. Align to the Burner Worm, start MWD without heat, then OH for the 2nd cycle
3. Start reps about when your 1st MWD cycle finish, let the reps ontinuously run
4. When your OH kicks in deactivate your MWD before the 3rd cycle.
5. Tackle the Burner Worm at 11-10km displayed range (scram range is only 9km i know but with your speed and server ticks), keep at range 1.4km
6. Dead Burner Worm


or stick with a shield enyo Big smile

[Enyo, ok blinky but]
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler
Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II

Warrior I x1

430 dps cold , each volley from burner gets you in 50 somewhat shield but you rep it up easily. only oh mwd during close up the gap.
Miali Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#377 - 2015-03-18 10:33:43 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
Burke Blanc wrote:
Ok guys. I could really use some advice on the "team" burner missions. I saw in this thread someone mentioned they were able to solo them in a Kestrel fit with ECM. I've been using that fit and it works great for the most part(I've beat all 4 types with it). My problem is sometimes it takes a while to down the first logi. It seems like it's all RNG if I can get my ECM to stick a few times in a row, etc.(I heat it sometimes to give me an edge)

Someone in a channel had linked me a Tristan fit, with 2 ECM modules and using warrior IIs. I also rigged that one up with +ECM strength rigs. That fit works pretty good on the Jaguar team, but all the other teams I tried with it just smash my warrior IIs before I can even pull them back to my drone bay.

I'm looking for a not super blingy kiting fit(like under 50 mil total-ish) that can do a better job than a kestrel kiting the burner teams. I can fly all the assault frigs and T2 for all drones and light weapon types. Anyone have any suggestions? Even some improvements to the kestrel fit?

I guess if I have to pony up for a worm or a garmur that can kite them much more efficiently and are "low risk", I'd be ok with it, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Here is the kestrel fit I use for the Vengeance team. Once I get the logi down, that is the team burner that takes me the longest to get him down. I seem to miss that one more than the others.


In short forget the Kestrel, use any other suitable ship, not the Tristan. Vengeance has defender missiles, so a lot of your missile DPS is taken out. The least bling variation is a Harpy.
Alternative kiting setups Used Alternatives: Harpy, Retribution


I've had reasonable success with T2 only ab/rail/ecm enyos vs the non jaguar burner teams as well for nonbling fits. Same idea as the harpy, just somewhat different base stats. ECM helps with killing the first logi, but with good (ie better than mine) frigate skills you probably have enough heated dps to just kill it though logistics anyway.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#378 - 2015-03-18 13:25:44 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:

In short forget the Kestrel, use any other suitable ship, not the Tristan. Vengeance has defender missiles, so a lot of your missile DPS is taken out.

Yesterday i have completed Jaguar team. And it looked like it has defender missiles too. Not big chance, i would estimate it to 20%.
Hawk has the chance to intercept incoming missiles closer to 50%.

Need to say that this is not data from logs. It is just shorthand analysis of what i have seen during mission. I used to look at target in final stage (when you kill the burner itself) and using defenders is very visible.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Nuclear Tap
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2015-03-19 20:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuclear Tap
Hello Guys,

First of all sorry for my bad English. I have read this post over and over again, and despite this I lost 4 faction/t2 frigs.

I have been spanked by those Burners guys, and I think I should ask for some advice. I don't have perfect skills for an AF (skill in lvl 4), but I can equip tech 2 guns (hybrids and projectiles, but not tech 2 LML, nor Rockets). I have a few premisses and I would like to stick with them:

  • 2 accounts doing the missions (remember I dont have perfect skills)

  • budget of 100 M per frigate (I am a casual player and ISK is not easy for me, and anything above would break the fun and becoming boring grind. I would do something else)

  • It must be the same ship for all Burners types

  • I'm not a good brawler and definetely not good dualboxing anything that needs micromanaging.

  • I can trains LML tech 2 and support skills lvl 4 in about 25 days.


The losts I have are brawlers Daredevil (1 ancillary and 1 AR2, 2x armor pump II, resists above 75%) and Harpys (passive tanking 249, resists above 75%). I thought I could web the Burner with the Daredevil, them web again with the Harpy and them be happy. Well, I happily exploded. LOL. I can't get close enough and the frigates exploded despite been full tanking fitted (all slots and rigs was used for tanking)

Here my request for advice :

1) I'm thinking about using 2 Garmurs t2 fitted (I have both faction frig skills at 5), burn away from them as soon as I'm on grid and set orbit at 50 km at 4000 m/s speed. Rigs and lowslots properly fitted to achieve target range and that speed. I can get LML 125 DPS after 25 days of training (2 accounts = 250 DPS at 60 km range). Does this sound feasible?

2) Garmurs would be equipped with 2 ECM for Burner Teams, and I'm wondering if it would be a good strategy to equip Sensor Dampening instead. Would 4 scripted damps negate lock target on me at 50 km? Ou maybe at 40 km? Do you have a clue?

3) I am EFT warrioring to find a kiting frigate with guns, without success. I believe I need to be more fast tham all Burner Agents (thats 3700 m/s), orbit at 35 km, and have a minimum of 100 DPS. Assaut Frigs have the DPS and range, but not the speed, Faction Frigs have the speed but not the DPS. Do I really need these numbers? Do you have any alternative for the Garmur and the 25 days waiting?

Thanks!
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#380 - 2015-03-19 22:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Kicks
Nuclear Tap wrote:


  • 2 accounts doing the missions (remember I dont have perfect skills)

  • budget of 100 M per frigate (I am a casual player and ISK is not easy for me, and anything above would break the fun and becoming boring grind. I would do something else)

  • It must be the same ship for all Burners types

  • I'm not a good brawler and definetely not good dualboxing anything that needs micromanaging.

  • I can trains LML tech 2 and support skills lvl 4 in about 25 days.



I've never thought of a dual box setup. If I were to do it, I think I'd build a dual or triple web hyena so I could drop the web on a brawler (wolf). Send in the Wolf and get aggro. Drag the burners away from warp in. Then bring the Hyena in, MWD on, keep at range, and web from range.

I know you don't like brawling, but this would be a easy to manage setup. So long as the brawler can tank the damage, the Hyena will keep the target tackled allowing you to slowboat into death range. This frees up a mid slot and possibly a low slot (less gyros).

One ship for all burners, under 100M... that will be tough on the tank, but probably easy on the Hyena.

Edit:

The Hyena could be pretty bare bones. 23M total. I'd be nervous to try on the Worm, but others would be ok if your chosen brawler can mount a tank.