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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Scram Kiting
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FNPD
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-03-14 18:56:36 UTC
Scram kiting has become pretty common in FW space and I have had success using similar to this fit:

[Tristan, SC]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

125mm Railgun II
[Empty High slot]
125mm Railgun II

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x3

The other day I had a Tormentor warp in on me with a fit similar to this:

[Tormentor, SC]

400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x2

He can scram kite, is faster than me, MUCH more durable than me, and does nearly as much DPS. Since he can dictate range, he could get into brawl range once he realized I was 125mm RGs and use Conflag or MF to do as much damage as me.

Don't get me wrong, the Tristan is nice because drones can get to kiters, which gives it decent versatility, but when going head-to-head with another brawler/scram kiter, is the Tormentor just about the king? Or is there something I could have done to win?
Vazkez
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-03-14 19:07:00 UTC
Erm, you are missing a penis-wig dynamo charger in the top slot, this would aid you more. fix it nigz
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#3 - 2015-03-14 20:11:40 UTC
fit neuts instead of guns, the dps is irrelevant anyway-

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Schneevva
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2015-03-14 20:20:42 UTC
I have a hard time believing that a 400 plate tormentor is that much faster than you. Or that scramkiting is particularly effective against a Tristan.

You could always try getting under his guns, pulse track somewhat poorly. Also try dropping your guns to 75 and fitting a nos, they tend to have weak cap as well. So if you can drain a little of his and keep repping his guns and repper will run out of cap and you win.

As a more general answer, tormentors are strong, both beam and pulse variety, but they aren't very versatile and are extremely vulnerable to cap warfare (which is for frigate pvp I would exclusively scram kite with them). Tristans are more flexible and unpredictable. Kite, neut, brawling, scram kite etc.
FNPD
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-03-14 20:54:18 UTC
The Tormentor goes nearly 100 m/s faster than me comparing all 5 skills. If he played perfectly I could never catch him with my neuts. He could match my overheating and go faster.
Paranoid Loyd
#6 - 2015-03-14 21:11:02 UTC
If he plays perfectly then he deserves the win right?

Most people don't play perfectly.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Schneevva
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2015-03-14 21:22:14 UTC
FNPD wrote:
The Tormentor goes nearly 100 m/s faster than me comparing all 5 skills. If he played perfectly I could never catch him with my neuts. He could match my overheating and go faster.


Maybe you should consider removing your anti-explo garbage rig and fit a transverse bulkhead or third aux nano pump. You know, maybe something that doesn't penalize one of the most useful stats for your ship?

Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#8 - 2015-03-14 22:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashlar Vellum
400mm plate torm is faster than no plated tristan, how much faster is he? What? (100m/s eh ,ok)
Overheat your prop mod, kill of his two drones, kite at scram edge and hope for the best would be my guess.
FNPD
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-03-14 22:57:26 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
If he plays perfectly then he deserves the win right?

Most people don't play perfectly.


My point was, is it possible to win if we both played perfectly.

Most people seem incredulous that it can go faster; it has an overdrive injector installed.

It also does the same damage as a Tristan from practically all ranges (brawl <-> scram kite), WITHOUT the use of a damage mod.
Paranoid Loyd
#10 - 2015-03-14 23:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Then as suggested, lose the speed nerfing rig, and add some neuts. If you lose the explosive rig, you will still be slightly slower, but that shouldn't matter, that 400mm plate makes him accelerate slower than you, so while his top speed may be slightly higher you should still be able to catch him.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#11 - 2015-03-14 23:34:25 UTC
FNPD
wrote:
My point was, is it possible to win if we both played perfectly.

Most people seem incredulous that it can go faster; it has an overdrive injector installed.

It also does the same damage as a Tristan from practically all ranges (brawl <-> scram kite), WITHOUT the use of a damage mod.

Maybe.

125mm rail/1 low DDA tristan out dps torm 5km and up. And imo Schneevva is right hulltank tristan would have much easier time with that torm.

Try something like this if you want to pew pew torms:

[Tristan, ScramKite 125mm HullTank Rails/Vamp]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I


Warrior II x3
Hobgoblin II x5

It should have nearly as much EHP as 400mm torm and same dps as your fit('cause it's basically the same fit), but need a +3% CPU implant if you want the vamp.
FNPD
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-03-15 00:06:43 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
FNPD
wrote:
My point was, is it possible to win if we both played perfectly.

Most people seem incredulous that it can go faster; it has an overdrive injector installed.

It also does the same damage as a Tristan from practically all ranges (brawl <-> scram kite), WITHOUT the use of a damage mod.

Maybe.

125mm rail/1 low DDA tristan out dps torm 5km and up. And imo Schneevva is right hulltank tristan would have much easier time with that torm.

Try something like this if you want to pew pew torms:

[Tristan, ScramKite 125mm HullTank Rails/Vamp]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I


Warrior II x3
Hobgoblin II x5

It should have nearly as much EHP as 400mm torm and same dps as your fit('cause it's basically the same fit), but need a +3% CPU implant if you want the vamp.


I had never even configured it as a hull tank. Thanks for the great reply!
FNPD
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-03-15 00:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: FNPD
I started playing around with it some more. I was thinking trying this. This would be with someone warping in on me in a plex. It should be faster than most. With Hobs and Void (Tristan has tracking bonus), it can do 207 paper DPS (203 with my own skills).

Cap last nearly 5 minutes even with the Neut.

[Tristan, Brawl [PvP]]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I


Hobgoblin II x5
Acolyte II x3
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#14 - 2015-03-15 02:17:24 UTC
not much point in fitting a single neut when you will pop before it runs long enough to cap out a frig
FNPD
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-03-15 02:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: FNPD
Will do some testing.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-03-17 13:06:56 UTC
Perhaps you should not engage Tormentors
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#17 - 2015-03-17 17:12:20 UTC
The number 1 rule of kiting is that mobility is king. If you can't dictate range, you die. Your Tristan looks like a brawler save the railguns.

Drop the drone damage mod for an overdrive, and swap out at least some of those armor rigs for polycarbs. Your DPS and tank will suffer, but the whole point of kiting is the ability to dictate range and maintain the ability to GTFO.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs