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DED escalations from Anoms - Not enough risk?
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Characternumber210492
Job Center Plus
#1 - 2015-03-16 10:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Characternumber210492
With the number of DEDs from anomalies shooting up since recent updates, DED content has been opened up to players who perhaps wouldn't have had the opportunity to run them before. This is in my opinion a good thing.

My issue is that these DEDs - 5/10s and above can spawn in high sec now. Because they are escalations they do not appear as core probe scannable signatures like normal DEDs.

This reduces the risk of having them stolen quite massively especially in high sec.

Should 5/10s and above always spawn in low-sec even if they are an escalation from an anom? Their potentially massive payout should have risk involved.
Alternatively failing that should they appear as probable signatures? Perhaps with a time-delay to give the person who ran the anomaly some advantage?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2015-03-16 11:03:19 UTC
You can probe the ships in the sigs.

If I get the escalation bookmark, it is my personal, private site and no one else's. If you want my private site, you can either buy the bookmark from me or you probe my ships in the signature and contest me.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Characternumber210492
Job Center Plus
#3 - 2015-03-16 11:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Characternumber210492
Rivr Luzade wrote:
You can probe the ships in the sigs.

If I get the escalation bookmark, it is my personal, private site and no one else's. If you want my private site, you can either buy the bookmark from me or you probe my ships in the signature and contest me.


But whats to distinguish an ishtar running a DED from an ishtar running a mission site? 99% of the time if you find one in high sec with wrecks around it, it's going to be running a mission and people aren't going to probe it down.

This only works in low-sec really, where its no big deal if the sig isn't core scan probeable, and people regularly scan down ships off celestials to kill them.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-03-16 11:54:34 UTC
Characternumber210492 wrote:


But whats to distinguish an ishtar running a DED from an ishtar running a mission site? 99% of the time if you find one in high sec with wrecks around it, it's going to be running a mission and people aren't going to probe it down.

This only works in low-sec really, where its no big deal if the sig isn't core scan probeable, and people regularly scan down ships off celestials to kill them.



go there and find out you want to steal a site in hs put some work into it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Characternumber210492
Job Center Plus
#5 - 2015-03-16 12:03:05 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Characternumber210492 wrote:


But whats to distinguish an ishtar running a DED from an ishtar running a mission site? 99% of the time if you find one in high sec with wrecks around it, it's going to be running a mission and people aren't going to probe it down.

This only works in low-sec really, where its no big deal if the sig isn't core scan probeable, and people regularly scan down ships off celestials to kill them.



go there and find out you want to steal a site in hs put some work into it


Your post is almost unintelligible but I think you meant something along the lines of 'You should go to high sec and try and combat probe DED site runners, it requires work' or something like that.

Again this would be for the most part entirely fruitless, on d-scan a DED is hard to distinguish from a mission site in terms of wrecks in high sec. My post is saying that these potentially extremely profitable DEDs belong in low/null, especially if they can't be probed down like other sigs.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-03-16 12:47:00 UTC
Characternumber210492 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Characternumber210492 wrote:


But whats to distinguish an ishtar running a DED from an ishtar running a mission site? 99% of the time if you find one in high sec with wrecks around it, it's going to be running a mission and people aren't going to probe it down.

This only works in low-sec really, where its no big deal if the sig isn't core scan probeable, and people regularly scan down ships off celestials to kill them.



go there and find out you want to steal a site in hs put some work into it


Your post is almost unintelligible but I think you meant something along the lines of 'You should go to high sec and try and combat probe DED site runners, it requires work' or something like that.

Again this would be for the most part entirely fruitless, on d-scan a DED is hard to distinguish from a mission site in terms of wrecks in high sec. My post is saying that these potentially extremely profitable DEDs belong in low/null, especially if they can't be probed down like other sigs.


I'm with lugh on thus, if you want the site then scan down the ships. Considering that most peole running a 5/10 in hisec will be newer players it should be easier to chase them off.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-03-16 13:48:04 UTC
Characternumber210492 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Characternumber210492 wrote:


But whats to distinguish an ishtar running a DED from an ishtar running a mission site? 99% of the time if you find one in high sec with wrecks around it, it's going to be running a mission and people aren't going to probe it down.

This only works in low-sec really, where its no big deal if the sig isn't core scan probeable, and people regularly scan down ships off celestials to kill them.



go there and find out you want to steal a site in hs put some work into it


Your post is almost unintelligible but I think you meant something along the lines of 'You should go to high sec and try and combat probe DED site runners, it requires work' or something like that.

Again this would be for the most part entirely fruitless, on d-scan a DED is hard to distinguish from a mission site in terms of wrecks in high sec. My post is saying that these potentially extremely profitable DEDs belong in low/null, especially if they can't be probed down like other sigs.



you said you couldn't tell if it was an ishtar running a DED or a mission prob him down go there and find out

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#8 - 2015-03-16 15:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
what would be the point in doing anoms if you could just steal the escalations from other people? would you propose missions have a warpable gate for everyone so someone can steal a mission from you and get the lp? or what about incursions, they are risk free aswell with massive payouts

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#9 - 2015-03-16 17:54:41 UTC
Just another lazy ganker crying for CCP to make it easier for him. Move along.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#10 - 2015-03-16 19:10:09 UTC
there no reason for it to be different then what it is, ive had plenty of anoms stolen after ive done all of the work to get to the last room just for some t3 prick to come in, gank the overseer and warp out. If I get an escalation, whichc I have 1 to do after 18 jumps asap after work, its atleast 1 site I don't have a twit waiting for me to do all of the work.

and yes now that ive also fit a multipurpose ship for EVERYTHING in exploration, I even do the hacking minigame which is less annoying with my max skills...although I still fear cheery pickers are attacking those sites and leaving

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Leyete Wulf
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-03-16 19:49:53 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Just another lazy ganker crying for CCP to make it easier for him. Move along.


This
Aran Hotchkiss
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-03-16 23:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Aran Hotchkiss
DED sites spawned from anoms in lowsec should always be in low or null sec - I think this was implemented recently.

If you're saying that anything above a 4/10 can spawn as a cosmic signature in hisec, grrr because if that's the case that marginalises me running combat exploration in low-security space.

I'll add some more to this post once I re-read the OP because I'm not 100% sure what you're asking for.


While it might be very hard to find a person running a high-end DED site from a hi-sec anomaly, the anomalies in question are available for anyone to warp to.


The only thing I semi-agree with would be preventing 5/10's from anomalies in lowsec spawning in hi-sec - and I think this is the case anyway, although it was implemented more so pirates living in lowsec (and unable to enter hisec) wouldn't get an unlucky escalation they couldn't access. [And if you suggest they should sell it they can't do that very easily - only way to sell escalations currently is to warp to the site yourself and then bookmark it]


Anyway.

No.

You should have enough control over your herd of cats to make them understand. If they constantly make misstakes, get better cats.
Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#13 - 2015-03-17 11:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciba Lexlulu
To improve risk-reward of DED sites, CCP should consider changing the DED sites spawning mechanic. I propose once the first DED entrance gate is activated, a warp-able beacon should appear in the overview. Similar to FW mission mechanic in lowsec. This will create alot of contents for PvPer and making missioning more exciting for all carebears.

I would also propoae that once a player enter DED complex, the pilot will gain suspect status. Again the goal is to improve explorers gaming experience as they now have to watch dscan (unless ganker come in with combat recon).
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#14 - 2015-03-17 11:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Ciba Lexlulu wrote:
To improve risk-reward of DED sites, CCP should consider changing the DED sites spawning mechanic. I propose once the first DED entrance gate is activated, a warp-able beacon should appear in the overview. Similar to FW mission mechanic in lowsec. This will create alot of contents for PvPer and making missioning more exciting for all carebears.

I would also propoae that once a player enter DED complex, the pilot will gain suspect status. Again the goal is to improve explorers gaming experience as they now have to watch dscan (unless ganker come in with combat recon).


no no no just no, do some work for your targets and stop being lazy, what risk do you have when getting all this easy ways to gank a ded site runner?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#15 - 2015-03-17 11:32:52 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ciba Lexlulu wrote:
To improve risk-reward of DED sites, CCP should consider changing the DED sites spawning mechanic. I propose once the first DED entrance gate is activated, a warp-able beacon should appear in the overview. Similar to FW mission mechanic in lowsec. This will create alot of contents for PvPer and making missioning more exciting for all carebears.

I would also propoae that once a player enter DED complex, the pilot will gain suspect status. Again the goal is to improve explorers gaming experience as they now have to watch dscan (unless ganker come in with combat recon).


no no no just no, do some work for your targets and stop being lazy


Well OP has raise the issue that current exploration mechanic in particular DED combat sites are too easy and numerous. You may notice that prices of DED mods are lower vs a year ago. Changing the mechanic is the best solution to introduce risk to the current relatively riskless activities.

Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#16 - 2015-03-17 11:38:56 UTC
Ciba Lexlulu wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Ciba Lexlulu wrote:
To improve risk-reward of DED sites, CCP should consider changing the DED sites spawning mechanic. I propose once the first DED entrance gate is activated, a warp-able beacon should appear in the overview. Similar to FW mission mechanic in lowsec. This will create alot of contents for PvPer and making missioning more exciting for all carebears.

I would also propoae that once a player enter DED complex, the pilot will gain suspect status. Again the goal is to improve explorers gaming experience as they now have to watch dscan (unless ganker come in with combat recon).


no no no just no, do some work for your targets and stop being lazy


Well OP has raise the issue that current exploration mechanic in particular DED combat sites are too easy and numerous. You may notice that prices of DED mods are lower vs a year ago. Changing the mechanic is the best solution to introduce risk to the current relatively riskless activities.



its not risk its just an easy way for a ganker to get easier kills, why make them warpable? so a ganker doesnt have to launch probes? suspect? really? do belt ratters go suspect, mission runners, incursion runners, miners and anyone else who engages in pve?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-03-17 11:55:07 UTC
Aran Hotchkiss wrote:
...

If you're saying that anything above a 4/10 can spawn as a cosmic signature in hisec, grrr because if that's the case that marginalises me running combat exploration in low-security space.
...
No.


It's very rare that the 5/10's show up in a hisec site so servers more as a taster for folks to see how losec sites would be. The loot payout is probably lower too as the hisec loot tables aren't as generous as losec/null/WH I thought?
Iain Cariaba
#18 - 2015-03-17 13:46:29 UTC
Ciba Lexlulu wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Ciba Lexlulu wrote:
To improve risk-reward of DED sites, CCP should consider changing the DED sites spawning mechanic. I propose once the first DED entrance gate is activated, a warp-able beacon should appear in the overview. Similar to FW mission mechanic in lowsec. This will create alot of contents for PvPer and making missioning more exciting for all carebears.

I would also propoae that once a player enter DED complex, the pilot will gain suspect status. Again the goal is to improve explorers gaming experience as they now have to watch dscan (unless ganker come in with combat recon).


no no no just no, do some work for your targets and stop being lazy


Well OP has raise the issue that current exploration mechanic in particular DED combat sites are too easy and numerous. You may notice that prices of DED mods are lower vs a year ago. Changing the mechanic is the best solution to introduce risk to the current relatively riskless activities.


FYI, CCP recently increased the chance of getting an escalation from an anom. This is the reason for the reduction in prices for DED mods, not some imaginary 'easy button' when running escalations.

I've chased many a runner out of their escalations, only to come back in my own site running ship to finish their site. Just takes a bit of intelligence, and some risk averse site runners.
Kirkra
The Versa-Ex Corp
#19 - 2015-03-17 14:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirkra
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Aran Hotchkiss wrote:
...

If you're saying that anything above a 4/10 can spawn as a cosmic signature in hisec, grrr because if that's the case that marginalises me running combat exploration in low-security space.
...
No.


It's very rare that the 5/10's show up in a hisec site so servers more as a taster for folks to see how losec sites would be. The loot payout is probably lower too as the hisec loot tables aren't as generous as losec/null/WH I thought?


Actually both Angel Refuge and Angel Den escalate to a DED5 in HS space. Those are HS anomalies are can be found in abundance (for other factions the spawn DED3 and DED4). This is probably a remnant from the days when Angels did not have a DED3 and DED4 for those anoms to escalate to. The result? Just doing anoms half-afk will net you an Angel DED5 in HS per 1, sometimes 2 hours. The payout is a LOT higher than any other site in HS. Around 60mil in guaranteed payout and tasty things like B-type invul field as bonus (empty drop is very rare).

Makes me wonder if any of the other formerly missing DED4 sites have their relevant anoms spawn a DED5, but I'm too lazy to check really.
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#20 - 2015-03-18 06:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lienzo
You can pretty much sail through them with oversize ABs. If you leave drones on auto, they don't even generate as much aggro.

I classify oversize prop mods with oversize buffer tanking. Both are problematic and blur the lines too much on ship roles. It should be necessary to actually give something up, and buffer rigs need stacking penalties. 10MN ABs should drain your capacitor. 50mm plates and micro extenders haven't made sense since 2003. Purge the unused stuff, recalibrate the size-relevant stuff (S/M/L), and mothball MAPCs, or limit their utility.

Additionaly, NPCs need more traditional fleet roles. Give their frigate squads long points, short points, webs, a prober, logi, boosters, snipers, heavy tackle, and ewar. Even if only the elite versions didn't suck, that would be something. Give them role appropriate orbit radii.

Sleeper AI was a step in the right direction, but if we must have a pve centric game, keep taking small steps to make it better.


Another big problem is the locations. It's completely reasonable to make them enormous. Acceleration gates are also a bit stale. How about throw a bookmark or two in a can?
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