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Why does CCP recommend an i7 chip?
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Tiay Saito
Forsaken Reavers
#1 - 2015-03-15 15:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiay Saito
Hello friends :)

So everyone I have asked has told me that an i5 chip is all you need for EVE, and that an i7 will bring basically no benefit at all because EVE (and most games) wont be able to take advantage of the extra threads.

Fair enough.

But then.. why.. Why oo why, does CCP recommend an i7 in the system requirements/recommendations? What am I not understanding here? This irks me because if I'm gonna invest in a pc build to play this game, then I kinda wanted it to meet the developers system recommendations, but I keep being told that it'd be a waste of money.

Anyway, here's my planned build, mostly for EVE and other 1080p gaming.. It is my first, I've researched a lot and am pretty happy with the list, so this isn't a "help me with my build" post, but feel free to comment.

http://de.pcpartpicker.com/p/3J3LK8
CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core
CPU Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus H97M-PLUS Micro ATX LGA1150
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" SSD
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 2GB
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX

fly safe
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2 - 2015-03-15 17:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Why micro ATX? Don't intend to update/upgrade the computer when it's obsolete in three years?
Tiay Saito
Forsaken Reavers
#3 - 2015-03-15 17:59:48 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Why micro ATX? Don't intend to update/upgrade the computer when it's obsolete in three years?


how does it being mATX stop me from upgrading the components? As far as I know, the main limitation will be sticking with a mATX board.. is there something amazing I can do with ATX boards that mATX boards can't do?


But really, I mainly wanna know why they recommend an i7 chip..
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#4 - 2015-03-15 19:24:33 UTC
i5 should do just fine. I'd say unless you are running a ton of accounts or have programs that take advantage of hyperthreading you probably don't need it.

I'd also look into getting a mechanical drive too. A single 256gb SSD is not much storage space.

-k8

My Fanclub
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#5 - 2015-03-15 21:15:47 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Why micro ATX? Don't intend to update/upgrade the computer when it's obsolete in three years?

I even went for an Mini-ITX build that's pretty awesome as you can see here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=400040&find=unread

And here: http://volcanoparadise.blogspot.no/2015/02/darknova.html

The only limitation you get is the amount of harddrives and the type of GPU you can use. But thankfully, the brands like ASUS and Gigabyte is making mini versions for ITX builds of the GTX 960 and GTX 970. So the gaming power isn't bad at all.

Yes, if you don't do alot of things that needs a high amount of calculation, aka number crushing, then you don't need more than an Intel Core i5.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Tiay Saito
Forsaken Reavers
#6 - 2015-03-15 21:24:32 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Yes, if you don't do alot of things that needs a high amount of calculation, aka number crushing, then you don't need more than an Intel Core i5.


Nice setup you've got there :) Yeah, I mean of course I drool over the i7's but it's a "want but don't need" thing- which is why it's itching me so much that CCP recommends an i7 chip. whyyyyy.. Evil
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#7 - 2015-03-15 21:46:53 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Why micro ATX? Don't intend to update/upgrade the computer when it's obsolete in three years?

I even went for an Mini-ITX build that's pretty awesome as you can see here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=400040&find=unread

And here: http://volcanoparadise.blogspot.no/2015/02/darknova.html

The only limitation you get is the amount of harddrives and the type of GPU you can use. But thankfully, the brands like ASUS and Gigabyte is making mini versions for ITX builds of the GTX 960 and GTX 970. So the gaming power isn't bad at all.

Yes, if you don't do alot of things that needs a high amount of calculation, aka number crushing, then you don't need more than an Intel Core i5.


I was mistaking micro for mini, but anyway that's not the biggest issue with the build posted.

I've been looking a lot to builds as dollar=> euro exchange rate messed up my budget and likely I'll agree to drop 1,400 euros in order to get what I think it's the best option for me. I want my computer to last 6 years with a mid-term GPU update, and if the 970 actually had 4 Gb or the 980 wasn't 500 bloody euros, I would already go for the new computer.

Anyway, I have come to a core fit of a i7 4790 on a Z97 + 16 Gb DDR 1866 RAM + 2 TB HDD +120/256 GB SDD + a 970. The i7 + 16 Gb + 2Tb should last the whole 6 years.

(My current system is a Q9300 @2.5GHZ + 4Gb DDR2 + 500 Gb and a 650 with 1Gb VRAM)
Tiay Saito
Forsaken Reavers
#8 - 2015-03-16 01:12:20 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
i5 should do just fine. I'd say unless you are running a ton of accounts or have programs that take advantage of hyperthreading you probably don't need it.

:/ yeah.. I know, it still annoys me why they recommend an i7 when EVE doesn't do hyperthreading. Is an i7 faster than an i5 even if it didn't have more threads?

Commissar Kate wrote:

I'd also look into getting a mechanical drive too. A single 256gb SSD is not much storage space.

yeah, might add one later on, but HDD prices always seem to be dropping so, gonna wait till I actually need it. I think the board has some fancy feature that uses the SSD as a buffer/cache and the HDD for storing infrequently used files.. but, setting that up retroactively might be a giant pain, so maybe I wont bother.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#9 - 2015-03-16 03:32:45 UTC
Tangent:
Funny little thing about Intel, Nvidia vs AMD, is that AMD is usually a model behind, so bench mark sites compare the wrong products the same way you can mismatch and button up a shirt wrong.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#10 - 2015-03-16 07:29:57 UTC
Eve is old...single core cpu old so basically higher clock / raw power the better.

I think due to that i7 is better basically.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#11 - 2015-03-16 07:49:57 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tangent:
Funny little thing about Intel, Nvidia vs AMD, is that AMD is usually a model behind, so bench mark sites compare the wrong products the same way you can mismatch and button up a shirt wrong.


The funny part is that those "models behind" cost only a little less than nVidia's last and hit the market at the same time.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#12 - 2015-03-16 16:25:10 UTC
As for the thing that CCP recommends an i7 CPU might be because CCP have a deal with Intel of some sorts and want to make sure they sells more of the i7 over the i5 in some ways.

Who knows, it might be true and it might not be that case.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Tiay Saito
Forsaken Reavers
#13 - 2015-03-16 17:06:21 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Eve is old...single core cpu old so basically higher clock / raw power the better.

I think due to that i7 is better basically.


Alright, so it's just that the i7 is faster even without using the extra threads.
Still not faster enough for me to justify the price of that chip compared to the i5-4590, which isn't even the fastest i5, but it is under €200..

NightmareX wrote:
As for the thing that CCP recommends an i7 CPU might be because CCP have a deal with Intel of some sorts and want to make sure they sells more of the i7 over the i5 in some ways.

Who knows, it might be true and it might not be that case.


conspiracy theory alert :P but I suppose if they're gonna recommend a set up, they might as well recommend the absolute best.. yet the GPU recommendation is pretty modest. *shrug*
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#14 - 2015-03-16 17:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Commissar Kate
i7 is only marginally faster than the i5. If you disregard hypethreading the only difference is a slightly faster clockspeed and larger cache on some models, not really much to make much of a difference for the price increase. You would be better off putting that extra $100 into the videocard instead.

-k8

My Fanclub
Weasel Ugs
The Night Crew
#15 - 2015-03-17 03:21:01 UTC
Eve runs just fine on my i5 with a Nvidia 750ti video card, much better than when I was running a dual core CPU and 8600GT card.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-03-17 11:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
i5 + 1chip on each of your shoulders (2) = i7

1 chip for links and the other one for a bait alt/scout.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#17 - 2015-03-17 19:05:09 UTC
no interest in experiencing the potential awesomeness that valkarie my be bringing to the community ?
Hrothgar Nilsson
#18 - 2015-05-19 05:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
Commissar Kate wrote:
i7 is only marginally faster than the i5. If you disregard hypethreading the only difference is a slightly faster clockspeed and larger cache on some models, not really much to make much of a difference for the price increase. You would be better off putting that extra $100 into the videocard instead.

Agreed, basically just a form of price discrimination between those willing to pay for a little more. Kind of like how airplane tickets are cheaper with a weekend stay, but expensive for intra-week round trip business travel. Or hormone-free organic milk vs. regular 2%.

To answer OP, they recommend i7 because it offers the best possible performance. Is it needed? No. Anything between the minimum general dual-core processor and an i7 will let you play EVE as well.

I can say though, from experience, that playing EVE even on minimum settings on an i5 laptop without enhanced graphics output really sucks. I can't count how many times the game seized up on me and my laptop shutdown from overheating. It would have run fine by itself, mostly, but TeamSpeak, pretty much a requirement playing for many alliances in EVE, is a CPU hog and the straw that breaks the camel's back.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Hrothgar Nilsson
#19 - 2015-05-19 05:35:40 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tangent:
Funny little thing about Intel, Nvidia vs AMD, is that AMD is usually a model behind, so bench mark sites compare the wrong products the same way you can mismatch and button up a shirt wrong.

I wish AMD would catch up a bit more, to drive competition so that processor technology would advance faster.

We've been stuck at the 4GHz threshold for over a decade, and CPU manufacturers have instead piled on more cores, miniaturized, pumped up the cache, reduced power consumption, and some other interesting things, which is all great, but it would be nice if there were a decisive breakthrough.

I'd like it if the GHz on CPUs started scaling like HDD and memory size have been, since, like, forever. Laws of physics are a ***** though.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Hrothgar Nilsson
#20 - 2015-05-19 05:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
Tiay Saito wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Why micro ATX? Don't intend to update/upgrade the computer when it's obsolete in three years?


how does it being mATX stop me from upgrading the components? As far as I know, the main limitation will be sticking with a mATX board.. is there something amazing I can do with ATX boards that mATX boards can't do?


But really, I mainly wanna know why they recommend an i7 chip..

Generally speaking, a microATX format has a lack of expandability.

Along with a smaller case, a microATX board could have less or support less:
  • SATA ports
  • USB connections on the motherboard if you want to install a bay/card with more front/back facing USB ports
  • PCI-E slots if you want to dual or triple bridge GPUs via SLI or Crossfire in the future
  • memory slots
  • maximum of memory installed (think 32GB max instead of 128GB max)
  • a narrower range of processors
  • bays for extra hard drives, optical drives, etc.
  • onboard RAID or other enhanced motherboard capabilities
  • connections to power additional aftermarket case fans
  • space to install beefed up CPU heatsinks/fans, e.g. a CoolerMaster Hyper212
  • options for cable management to maintain good airflow

Generally, microATX boards are good for:
  • more portable desktops (BYO PC for gaming/LAN parties)
  • people who just plain want a smaller desktop case for space/aesthetic considerations
  • casual PC users
  • offices and workplaces that have limited hardware needs

Don't know if you've already pulled the trigger and bought your setup, but I hope that answers your question. Somewhere, generally, sacrifices are made on a microATX board. Sometimes it is useless things like ports for IDE/floppy ribbon cable, or an onboard graphics controller with VGA/DVI ports, or Firewire, PS/2, and other obsolete ports.

Too often though they lack enhanced features, as well as extra features that are genuinely useful for expansion.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
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