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Tengu or Stratios for lowsec/wh exploration?

Author
Agent Known
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-03-11 13:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Known
Janey T'gahl wrote:
Agent Known wrote:
Janey T'gahl wrote:
By the way, can anyone recommend a great stratios fit that would mainly be for lowsec exploration, but could also defend itself if jumped?


edit: I can't fit lasers yet, but I have pretty decent railgun skills. Would that be viable on a stratios?


Railguns are bad, m'kay?

Fit neuts to escape from tacklers (or to kill them). Your choice if you want to have an active or buffer fit depending on your needs/skills:

[Stratios, sneaky sneaky]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Warp Disruptor II
Relic Analyzer I
PL-0 Scoped Cargo Scanner
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Gecko x1
Hammerhead II x4


I like the Gecko for the extra DPS.



Thank you. But how viable would that fit be in pve?


The drones will make quick work of most rats in lowsec. You really need laser skills to make use of turrets. Please don't put rails on it. The warp disruptor is excellent for surprising the would-be ganker as they're often not expecting you to fight back.
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-03-13 18:27:17 UTC
Agent Known wrote:
Janey T'gahl wrote:
Agent Known wrote:
Janey T'gahl wrote:
By the way, can anyone recommend a great stratios fit that would mainly be for lowsec exploration, but could also defend itself if jumped?


edit: I can't fit lasers yet, but I have pretty decent railgun skills. Would that be viable on a stratios?


Railguns are bad, m'kay?

Fit neuts to escape from tacklers (or to kill them). Your choice if you want to have an active or buffer fit depending on your needs/skills:

[Stratios, sneaky sneaky]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Warp Disruptor II
Relic Analyzer I
PL-0 Scoped Cargo Scanner
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Gecko x1
Hammerhead II x4


I like the Gecko for the extra DPS.



Thank you. But how viable would that fit be in pve?


The drones will make quick work of most rats in lowsec. You really need laser skills to make use of turrets. Please don't put rails on it. The warp disruptor is excellent for surprising the would-be ganker as they're often not expecting you to fight back.



Yeah, I hear you :) I've never been much into pvp though, but should I really rely only on drones in this case? No lasers at all?
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-03-13 18:55:52 UTC  |  Edited by: MooMooDachshundCow
Janey T'gahl wrote:
Yeah, I hear you :) I've never been much into pvp though, but should I really rely only on drones in this case? No lasers at all?


For C3 sites, this fitting will not work, because it will be neutered, and then you cannot tank. Similarly with lasers, they're not preferred because of cap issues.

In Null this would be no problem, but the ship is very overtanked for most null sites that I recall.

C3 sites can be easily run with a tengu. You just need an LSB with an SBA and cap rigs. add an invul or two and an EM ward and you're able to run anything in a C3 with ease. Bring a TP and precision heavy missiles to increase damage application to frigs, OR fit HAM's and an AB for greatly increased DPS, but that requires more positioning. I don't remember how much webbing there is in a C3 but I'm pretty sure it's enough to make HAM fits annoying. I prefer HML for this reason.

I think that a passive shield stratios can get up around 800 DPS tank with all T2 SPR's in the lows and T2 purger rigs. Fit autocannons in the highs and one EM ward in the mids with large extenders. This could probably run at least some C3 sites, and almost any null anom. This has the bonus of being neut-proof, and not requiring much SP nor losing you any if you get lazy/jumped.

The Gila makes an excellent C3 passive shield site runner as well, better than the stratios, but no cloak of course.

My vote is this: If you're running within a jump or two of home, a tengu is great for a C3. If you're truly out exploring solo, I recommend a stratios. It's a versatile boat, plus it's cheaper and no SP loss.

EDIT: Passive fits can break around 500 DPS tank, I was off by 60%. I apologize.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-03-13 19:02:38 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Janey T'gahl wrote:
Yeah, I hear you :) I've never been much into pvp though, but should I really rely only on drones in this case? No lasers at all?


For C3 sites, this fitting will not work, because it will be neutered, and then you cannot tank. Similarly with lasers, they're not preferred because of cap issues.

In Null this would be no problem, but the ship is very overtanked for most null sites that I recall.

C3 sites can be easily run with a tengu. You just need an LSB with an SBA and cap rigs. add an invul or two and an EM ward and you're able to run anything in a C3 with ease. Bring a TP and precision heavy missiles to increase damage application to frigs, OR fit HAM's and an AB for greatly increased DPS, but that requires more positioning. I don't remember how much webbing there is in a C3 but I'm pretty sure it's enough to make HAM fits annoying. I prefer HML for this reason.

I think that a passive shield stratios can get up around 800 DPS tank with all T2 SPR's in the lows and T2 purger rigs. Fit autocannons in the highs and one EM ward in the mids with large extenders. This could probably run at least some C3 sites, and almost any null anom. This has the bonus of being neut-proof, and not requiring much SP nor losing you any if you get lazy/jumped.

The Gila makes an excellent C3 passive shield site runner as well, better than the stratios, but no cloak of course.

My vote is this: If you're running within a jump or two of home, a tengu is great for a C3. If you're truly out exploring solo, I recommend a stratios. It's a versatile boat, plus it's cheaper and no SP loss.



tnank you :) Been away for a couple of years, so please refresh my mind. What are SPR's ?
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-03-13 19:16:30 UTC
Shield Power Relays

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-03-13 19:46:18 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Shield Power Relays



So the proposed with, but with your changes, would that be a good idea for low/null sec? And if I want to go pure pvp, would the first one be better? Sorry for all the questions :)
Nycha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-03-13 19:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Nycha
Dont think a strat can get a passive 800 dps tank. Maybe with implants or outer effects, but not without.
Agent Known
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-03-13 20:08:24 UTC
Nycha wrote:
Dont think a strat can get a passive 800 dps tank. Maybe with implants or outer effects, but not without.


With T2 purgers, relays, and 3 large extenders, I could only get 589 DPS tank with implants...and only 30k EHP. Passive stratios definitely won't work. This is forgoing the relic scanner as well.

As with any ship, there will be difficulty with fitting for both PvP and PvE because they're two totally different things. Neuting the enemy in PvP is highly effective with the Stratios, but neuting sleepers will ruin your day in an active tanked fit. It doesn't have the bonuses to make a passive tank worthwhile like the Tengu/Drake does.

For exploration - especially C3s, use a Tengu. Ganks with a Stratios are fun, but they won't be able to handle the combat sites very well if neuting is present.
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-03-13 20:08:24 UTC
I've kind of changed focus a bit reading about the Stratios :) I'd much rather have a wormhole pvp fit with the ability to run c1+c2 than the other way around. How would such a fit look like?

Something like this one I found on reddit?

"[Stratios, WH Hunter]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Warp Scrambler II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Stasis Webifier II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Core Probe Launcher II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Gecko x2"
Agent Known
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-03-13 20:10:23 UTC
Janey T'gahl wrote:
I've kind of changed focus a bit reading about the Stratios :) I'd much rather have a wormhole pvp fit with the ability to run c1+c2 than the other way around. How would such a fit look like?

Something like this one I found on reddit?

"[Stratios, WH Hunter]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Warp Scrambler II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Stasis Webifier II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Core Probe Launcher II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Gecko x2"

It'll be really really slow (tops out at 510 m/s with all V skills), but effective ...especially in groups.
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-03-13 20:14:13 UTC
Agent Known wrote:
Janey T'gahl wrote:
I've kind of changed focus a bit reading about the Stratios :) I'd much rather have a wormhole pvp fit with the ability to run c1+c2 than the other way around. How would such a fit look like?

Something like this one I found on reddit?

"[Stratios, WH Hunter]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Warp Scrambler II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Stasis Webifier II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Core Probe Launcher II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Gecko x2"

It'll be really really slow (tops out at 510 m/s with all V skills), but effective ...especially in groups.


What do I need to change on it for it to be effective in solo? a mwd instead of ab?
Agent Known
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-03-13 20:31:19 UTC
Janey T'gahl wrote:
Agent Known wrote:
Janey T'gahl wrote:
I've kind of changed focus a bit reading about the Stratios :) I'd much rather have a wormhole pvp fit with the ability to run c1+c2 than the other way around. How would such a fit look like?

Something like this one I found on reddit?

"[Stratios, WH Hunter]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Warp Scrambler II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Stasis Webifier II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Core Probe Launcher II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Gecko x2"

It'll be really really slow (tops out at 510 m/s with all V skills), but effective ...especially in groups.


What do I need to change on it for it to be effective in solo? a mwd instead of ab?


It would help, but there's not enough PG to make it fit and it's already tight on cap with the neuts. You can still use it solo if you can land initial tackle on something and it can't run away.
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-03-13 20:44:03 UTC
That fit you just linked would work for PVP/C1-2 sites. For pve just swap one tank mod for an active rep and you're good. I suggest taking off the plate for ratting, but the reactive or an eanm would be fine to lose also.

Sorry about the passive tank numbers. I was wrong, it tops around 500 DPS tank as you said. Excuse me.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-03-15 08:15:21 UTC
Thank you so much for all the responses guys. I know the question was tengu vs stratios, but do you guys recommend any other ship that might be on pair or better?
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-03-15 13:06:46 UTC
Janey T'gahl wrote:
Thank you so much for all the responses guys. I know the question was tengu vs stratios, but do you guys recommend any other ship that might be on pair or better?


Gila...if you have a scanner ship.
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-03-15 13:27:14 UTC
Garrett Osinov wrote:
Janey T'gahl wrote:
Thank you so much for all the responses guys. I know the question was tengu vs stratios, but do you guys recommend any other ship that might be on pair or better?


Gila...if you have a scanner ship.



I already have a Gila, no scanner ship though. But would the Gila really work in lowsec/wh? Wouldn't a ship that can fit covert ops cloak be more suitable?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-03-15 13:48:31 UTC
you can fit a regular cloak and mwd on most ships and be immune to all but the most dedicated camps.
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-03-15 15:19:07 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
you can fit a regular cloak and mwd on most ships and be immune to all but the most dedicated camps.


Yeah, true. But for someone who's never set foot inside a wormhole, wouldn't a covert ops be kinda of essential, or would a regular cloak do fine?
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-03-15 15:53:00 UTC
What you guys have to remember is that Sleepers basically do EM/Therm damage only against cruisers. You will effectively sig tank the exp/kin missiles sleepers shoot even if you're webbed to a standstill. Tengu has 0 EM resist and that's a big problem. The only way a Tengu beats a Stratios in C3 sites is if it mobile depot refits to a 6-launcher combat fit without the covops cloak. The Stratios is going to be better at C3 running than any Tengu with a covops cloak fitted.
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-03-15 15:59:28 UTC
Yeah, I'm leaning towards the Stratios. Mostly because I own it and can fly it, and the tengu is 14 days away. But I can't seem to find the perfect fit.
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