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Interesting graph comparing various weapon systems DPS...
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Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#1 - 2015-03-02 22:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozbaz
This image was posted on this Reddit thread today and it brings up some interesting points on how effective various weapon systems are at long range with long range ammunition.

In the comments, it's noted that comparing 1 individual drone to 1 individual turret isn't exactly accurate, because with bonuses, many ships will have more "effective" turrets/launchers than an ishtar will have of drones. For example a Tengu can have 12 effective launchers while the Ishtar only has about 7.5 effective sentries.

I wanted to cross-post this over to these forums and see what you guys think. So, what do you think?
Nycha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-03-02 23:11:05 UTC
If I understand this correctly this is the damage of 1 volley. Which doesnt make much sense to me.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#3 - 2015-03-02 23:13:58 UTC
Although the height of the peaks is obviously variable for the reasons you stated, it's interesting to see the horizontal positions of the peaks clearly favour the sentry drones over anything else above 70km.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#4 - 2015-03-02 23:24:13 UTC
Nycha wrote:
If I understand this correctly this is the damage of 1 volley. Which doesnt make much sense to me.


I thought that too for a second, but it's actually the DPS.
Nycha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-03-02 23:43:04 UTC
A strange thing is, that he doesnt have medium drones in the graph. Just sentries.
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#6 - 2015-03-03 00:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozbaz
Nycha wrote:
A strange thing is, that he doesnt have medium drones in the graph. Just sentries.


Yeah, other's noted that too.

Personally, I'm more interested in how the projectile weapons look on the graph. I've known for a long time that Artillery sucks in terms of DPS but it is high in alpha. It has two very niche situations where it can be used that I can think of right off the top of my head:

1. In fleets where you alpha the enemy fleet DPS ships in one volley, and can completely ignore their logi.

2. Punching through active reps into armor/structure. (meh)


When looking at Autocannons, I see that their DPS is well...low. But What I do notice is that they do more DPS than almost anything else at close range - except blasters. However, their DPS doesn't drop as fast as blasters in range, so they can effectively apply their DPS better from further away.


**edit** I can think of one more area where Artillery can be pretty good. Getting the killing blow on an enemy so you can make your killboard stats look better ^_^
Leiron Thali
#7 - 2015-03-03 00:44:55 UTC
Aww, I don't see any cruise or Torps. Am I reading it wrong?
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#8 - 2015-03-03 00:48:52 UTC
It's just medium weapons plus sentries.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#9 - 2015-03-03 02:41:13 UTC
Arty Alpha is key for suicide ganks also.
Warmonger Simon
Trinity Alpha Zero
#10 - 2015-03-03 08:29:41 UTC
Non-bonused comparasion is very flawed. Sentry platform - Ishy has 7.5 sentries bonused, while almost any railboat will have more than 7.5 total rails if we count the bonuses.
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#11 - 2015-03-03 12:44:03 UTC
Biggest flaw by far? Putting sentries up against medium sized weapons?!

Training wise, damage wise, fitting wise its not a med weapon.

Only like 2 cruisers can field a full set now that the gila cant anymore...

Silly, silly, silly
Warmonger Simon
Trinity Alpha Zero
#12 - 2015-03-03 12:56:10 UTC
Belthazor4011 wrote:
Biggest flaw by far? Putting sentries up against medium sized weapons?!

Training wise, damage wise, fitting wise its not a med weapon.

Only like 2 cruisers can field a full set now that the gila cant anymore...

Silly, silly, silly


They should fix the heavies being complete **** and removing sentry bonus completely from ish.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-03-03 13:09:25 UTC
Warmonger Simon wrote:
Non-bonused comparasion is very flawed. Sentry platform - Ishy has 7.5 sentries bonused, while almost any railboat will have more than 7.5 total rails if we count the bonuses.


Not that it is any help though.

Also, nothing stopping drone boats from using guns. They just don't because the sentries rock the house.
Warmonger Simon
Trinity Alpha Zero
#14 - 2015-03-03 13:16:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Warmonger Simon
afkalt wrote:
Warmonger Simon wrote:
Non-bonused comparasion is very flawed. Sentry platform - Ishy has 7.5 sentries bonused, while almost any railboat will have more than 7.5 total rails if we count the bonuses.


Not that it is any help though.

Also, nothing stopping drone boats from using guns. They just don't because the sentries rock the house.


Heavies are kind of comparable to blasters in a sense. Compare Ehp/damage/tracking/damage and tank mods used of a blaster pvp boat to Ishtar if it'd be using heavies with any guns. Ishtar will lose every time and it can lose most of it's dps by losing it's drones which can't be said for similar blaster boat. It's just that heavies suck way too hard. I'd rather see it getting some extra bonuses to heavy drones and total removal of sentry bonus from that ship.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-03-04 19:10:16 UTC
Warmonger Simon wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Warmonger Simon wrote:
Non-bonused comparasion is very flawed. Sentry platform - Ishy has 7.5 sentries bonused, while almost any railboat will have more than 7.5 total rails if we count the bonuses.


Not that it is any help though.

Also, nothing stopping drone boats from using guns. They just don't because the sentries rock the house.


Heavies are kind of comparable to blasters in a sense. Compare Ehp/damage/tracking/damage and tank mods used of a blaster pvp boat to Ishtar if it'd be using heavies with any guns. Ishtar will lose every time and it can lose most of it's dps by losing it's drones which can't be said for similar blaster boat. It's just that heavies suck way too hard. I'd rather see it getting some extra bonuses to heavy drones and total removal of sentry bonus from that ship.


Without sentries the ishtar is just another brawler. Heavy drones take way too long to cover even 20-30k

Drone boats don't use guns because they have few slots and no bonuses for them and drone damage mods eat CPU.

Unless you make every ship effectively the same there's always going to be one that is dominant for specific situations (I.e. ishtar gor fleet fights).
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-03-09 11:40:27 UTC
Sentries are considered large weapons, so the results of the graph are entirely unsurprising. The question I've always had is what is a gallant ship doing with the same mids as it has lows? Give it the deimos layout for sexy brawltar action imo :]

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#17 - 2015-03-09 16:46:14 UTC
The plot compares Sentry Drones to medium weapons using their lowest DPS, worst-tracking ammo (except for HMLs and RLMLs). The plot also makes no mention of the fact that the unbonused max drone control range for an all V character is 60km.

There's some good data here, but it lacks context. Proceed with caution....

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2015-03-10 08:42:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcos Vandymion
Single Ammo stationary targets - look at this graph to figure out the best weapons to shoot towers (hint: standart MF or Sentries so you don't have to annoy your logistics division for more ammo).

The colourchoice for Beams is terrible.

A comprehensive comparison would have to be interactive allowing you to toggle the weapon groups you want while selecting ammo, approach vector and speed. Such, totally disregarding hull boni (energy weapon capacitor use ^^) and slot layout, could be used in a meaningful way. Alternatively a 3 axis layout where the third axis would be either a fixed angle with variable speed* or vice versa**.

Sentries can be used by a grand total of 2 cruisers - might as well add Tachyon Beams and Neutron Blaster Cannons because they can be used by a shipclass that otherwise only uses medium weapons (at two hulls for hybrids and one each for energy and projectiles) ...



EDIT:
*min/max/fixed value by entering into appropriate fields in a way of (min-max or a simple value for a static)

**not regarding signature - soooo many variables so little room in three dimensions
Asp IV
Apex Abyss
#19 - 2015-03-13 12:28:16 UTC
This somewhat broken (faction ammo wtf) T2 ammo weapon system comparison would've been interesting to see with close range/tracking ammo as well (even though tracking is not part of the dps comparison, and "range" itself is obsolete for missiles)

HAMS and HML are loaded with faction ammo and not T2 though, which is odd, even though range is not a factor per se. when it comes to missiles, Its dps is inherit in the ammo bonus for HAMS and even in HMLS . Therefore it would have been wise to chose the longest range t2 ammo. (since this is what we are comparing here with every weaponsystem, including the t2 drones)

IMO longest range T2 ammo should've been loaded for all missilebased weapon systems, since this is what we are interesting in comparing with the "test logic".


As a sidenote. Javelin is the name of the tracking/short range ammo for rails with high damage potential

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Javelin_M

But for rockets and hams "javelin" is long range with less damage potential


https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ammunition_&_Charges:Missiles:Heavy_Assault_Missiles:Advanced_Long_Range_Heavy_Assault_Missiles

When it comes to rail ammunition It is obvious that "Spike" should be renamed to Javelin and Javelin to spike.


"As in don't forget to load yer Lowgbow with plenty of Javelin"


Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#20 - 2015-03-13 13:55:15 UTC
the reason why there aren't drones other then sentries is all of the drones swoop in and orbit do they never really lose their range would decrease the dps, where as sentries sit in 1 spot and the target can be moving all over.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith