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How "science proof" is EVE?

First post
Author
Mindseamstress
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
#21 - 2015-03-13 13:20:30 UTC
uhh you realise that this game does not take Newtonian physics very seriously right?
Syrilian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-03-13 13:36:04 UTC
I've always wondered why they decided to make most ships fly more like trucks than ships and that space in the Eve universe is apparently has some gravity.
stoicfaux
#23 - 2015-03-13 13:43:59 UTC
There is zero real world "science" in EVE.

Even things based on real word science, such as railguns, make absolutely zero sense in EVE. Explain to me why a railgun would need such dramatically different ammo types. Why would an anti-matter railgun round and a lead railgun round have different ranges or require different amounts of energy to fire? Why would you even use something as soft (and non-magnetic) as lead as railgun ammo?

If EVE ships can bounce off of each other and objects in general (i.e. they're immune to kinetic impacts) then they would probably be immune to real world railguns which rely on kinetic energy to do damage. Which thus implies that EVE railguns aren't kinetic kill weapons and instead rely on some exotic process to damage targets. i.e. they're not railguns as we know them.

Now excuse me while I bit-slap my inner OCD into submission.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Agent Known
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-03-13 13:53:22 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
There is zero real world "science" in EVE.

Even things based on real word science, such as railguns, make absolutely zero sense in EVE. Explain to me why a railgun would need such dramatically different ammo types. Why would an anti-matter railgun round and a lead railgun round have different ranges or require different amounts of energy to fire? Why would you even use something as soft (and non-magnetic) as lead as railgun ammo?

If EVE ships can bounce off of each other and objects in general (i.e. they're immune to kinetic impacts) then they would probably be immune to real world railguns which rely on kinetic energy to do damage. Which thus implies that EVE railguns aren't kinetic kill weapons and instead rely on some exotic process to damage targets. i.e. they're not railguns as we know them.

Now excuse me while I bit-slap my inner OCD into submission.


If I remember correctly, there was an explanation for the ships never colliding. The ship's navigational system instantly reacts to a collision attempt and overrides our own commands to get the ship out of the way.

Of course, this doesn't explain why a damn freighter moves like a slug but can be bumped around at 200 m/s+.
stoicfaux
#25 - 2015-03-13 14:08:07 UTC
Agent Known wrote:

If I remember correctly, there was an explanation for the ships never colliding. The ship's navigational system instantly reacts to a collision attempt and overrides our own commands to get the ship out of the way.

Of course, this doesn't explain why a damn freighter moves like a slug but can be bumped around at 200 m/s+.

Or why we can't maneuver like that at will. Seriously, instead of a MWD, I would have a button that spoofs my ship's sensors with a fake ramming attack to trigger the ship's collision avoidance routines, and use that to move around.

Never mind, that such a collision avoidance routine should work on missiles and bombs as well.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#26 - 2015-03-13 15:54:51 UTC
-Ships flying around at warpspeed without using any kind of fuel. = nuclear reactors and fusion doesn't require that much, out rovor on mars is running off of Plutonium 238, and operates on the basis of the radiation providing heat which provides power.

- Caroline's star seen exploding at the same time lightyears apart.= yeah not so much on this one, everywhere should be seeing it at different times, but that would also take hundreds of years, I don't think eve will be around that long

- Endless resources (Asteroid belts spawning at the very same place every day at noon).- this is a game world and you need resources. Would you prefer all of empire run out and the superblocks control the last of the asteroids thus controlling the minerals. The ore must flow, ships and ammo must be built. Ever seen the Fallout series intro describing war?

- Asteroid belts' ores depending on the sec status of the system they spawn in.= would be right to find rare minerals to mine in a downtown area now would it? or somewhere like your backyard of a place you rent which is a sub division is a town, who does the ore belong to?

- Ships colliding at high speeds without getting damaged.= this because it would be abused by using numbers of cheap small ships to take out much larger ships...rookie ships with 1mn ab or mwd could be used for this, they have ganked freighters with rookie ships.

- Packaging and unpackaging spaceships in seconds thereby reducing the volume incredibly.= repacking ships does make them smaller because you remove all of the empty space the ship contains. ever buy an entertainment system that comes in a box and you set it up and its much bigger than the box it came in? yeah repacking and unpacking works like that. the time though...would you like to spend a few days waiting for the battleship you bought to unpack so you can do missions?

- Storing thousands of ships in stations big enough to house a few dozen.= Maybe not thousands but the stations are very large and contain multiple areas for docking, not just 1 large room. Ill take a look at station dimensions sometime but im pretty sure they are bigger then the overall area of out military bases.



Just because something may or may not make sense to a RL situation in a game, there may still be a reason for it.

For zero, the rail guns using less energy t doesn't make sense but the ammo weight and size would affect range...just not so drastically. Even in space there is particles that will collide into a moving object making it slow down over time, but would take a very very long time. Also rail gun ammo, only the core of atoms in the material, the whole shell is something else.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-03-13 16:04:03 UTC
EVE a space simulation? Hahahahahahahahahaha
OP, EVE is no where close to being a simulation.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#28 - 2015-03-13 16:05:38 UTC
Agent Known wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
There is zero real world "science" in EVE.

Even things based on real word science, such as railguns, make absolutely zero sense in EVE. Explain to me why a railgun would need such dramatically different ammo types. Why would an anti-matter railgun round and a lead railgun round have different ranges or require different amounts of energy to fire? Why would you even use something as soft (and non-magnetic) as lead as railgun ammo?

If EVE ships can bounce off of each other and objects in general (i.e. they're immune to kinetic impacts) then they would probably be immune to real world railguns which rely on kinetic energy to do damage. Which thus implies that EVE railguns aren't kinetic kill weapons and instead rely on some exotic process to damage targets. i.e. they're not railguns as we know them.

Now excuse me while I bit-slap my inner OCD into submission.


If I remember correctly, there was an explanation for the ships never colliding. The ship's navigational system instantly reacts to a collision attempt and overrides our own commands to get the ship out of the way.

Of course, this doesn't explain why a damn freighter moves like a slug but can be bumped around at 200 m/s+.


Is that what happens? I always thought the ships were just bumping shields. Giggity.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2015-03-13 16:15:30 UTC
Sophie Mahler wrote:
1. so how "realistic" is this game, is it "up to date" with modern, 2015 science regarding time & space travel?

2. this is more for the dev team, even tho they probably won't bother to read this (maybe they will), but are there plans to further improve the game in order to make it closer to what "real life space travel" could be?

Speaking as a member of the development team with an academic background in physics and a period working as an engineer in the space launch field, I'd say that EVE strives to have a scientific "feel" without even attempting to be actually accurate.

Furthermore, I would argue that this is exactly the right route to take in developing a game that's meant for entertainment rather than an educational tool. EVE borrows far more from tropes of science fiction media than it does from the science itself, and that's fine. The game is, in my opinion, more entertaining as a result of that choice.

If you want to have a game experience that will teach you a ton about real-life space travel, I recommend checking out Kerbal Space Program.

This cartoon pretty much says it all about KSP.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Memphis Baas
#30 - 2015-03-13 17:02:16 UTC
No, CCP made an effort to have EVE be somewhat scientifically accurate 12 years ago when the game was launched. Since then, there has been almost no progress and they haven't put in much effort to upgrade scientific background of the game:

- We live in a 5000+ star "galaxy" with a void around it, nothing there.

- All the dots in the sky box are stars (no other galaxies). There is no mention of orbital telescopes or their resolution, so I guess we're limited to eyeball observation.

- One star going supernova was seen at the same time across however many hundreds of light years the EVE cluster is.

- Absolutely every single star system, all 5000 of them, are SINGLE STAR with planets in orbit. All the stars appear to be main sequence G.

- Planets don't actually orbit, they are fixed in space. Space stations don't actually orbit, they are fixed in space.

- If you turn off your engines, you stop moving (in space).

- Spaceships turn and maneuver without attitude thrusters, and their mass center isn't aligned with their thrust center.

- A lot of the explosions (missiles) are rings, rather than expanding spheres.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#31 - 2015-03-13 17:09:21 UTC
The physics is like from the game Tie Fighter and later XWing vs. Tie Fighter.


Imagine if docking was like Moon Lander.

Yeah, Moon Lander. And I used to play it in the arcade when I was young. Almost got killed by a velociraptor trying to play Moon Lander.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Kamahl Daikun
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-03-13 17:29:06 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Our "brightest scientists" think there's a copy (or two or three) of themselves somewhere else, doing exactly what they're doing here...where ever? whatever THAT may be. Only, they can't say exactly where....or what.... SO... "scientist?" I'm not impressed. "Scientist" is beginning to sound like "The High Priest" says....

EVE physics is as real as it can be and have a playable game that doesn't have players quitting,
climbing the walls or face-rolling it. I should think someone could figure this part out if they've
set their course for a planet, and an hour later they haven't "gotten there yet." Physics, of course,
would have you smash into the surface - gravity and all that. Did you miss the "clone" part, perhaps?

So, how many "is the physics of EVE scientifically comparable" posts is this so far this year? (And, it's still March.)

PS I have to say I AM impressed that "science" has finally decided to accept the fact that consciousness does indeed exist. I know it's not apparent to everyone, (especially the brain dead.) Good to see they're coming around...or coming to, whichever applies.


This post is saltier than the ocean.
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#33 - 2015-03-13 17:54:41 UTC
are you worried a sci fi game might not be accurate? or are you worried that you might not be able to suspend your disbelief long enough to enjoy the game?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#34 - 2015-03-13 18:53:46 UTC
to quote eve's best error msg: "physics sais 'no'"

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Kiandoshia
Likely Suspects
RAZOR Alliance
#35 - 2015-03-13 18:58:11 UTC
Sophie Mahler wrote:


1. so how "realistic" is this game, is it "up to date" with modern, 2015 science regarding time & space travel?



Not very but it is a pretty kickass submarine combat simulation.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#36 - 2015-03-13 19:01:52 UTC
Eve Online got the fluid universe thing right.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Christopher AET
Lethal Injection Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#37 - 2015-03-13 19:16:42 UTC
Any game with faster than light travel doesn't really need to be accurate. According to current understanding of science travelling at those speeds is impossible. So even if there is a way to travel FTL it's beyond the scope of our understanding. After that everything else is unimportant.

tldr

Gameplay>accuracy

I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.

WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
#38 - 2015-03-13 19:27:12 UTC  |  Edited by: WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
it's a game, not a space life simulator.

CCP Darwin wrote:

That's not KSP. KSP is a network of PC hardware stores scattered all around Israel. what you're referring to is a game.

Everything's a game if you make it one - Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci

CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase - Frostys Virpio

Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#39 - 2015-03-13 22:34:35 UTC
About as accurate the archaeology in Tomb Raider.
Legion Masser
KROOKBORNE
Seventh Sanctum.
#40 - 2015-03-14 00:42:21 UTC
Forget about science , I just want Eve to release their 2015 textures and tessellation or 2014 or 2013 or 2012 ............... :)

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