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Missions & Complexes

 
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Level 4 Mission Running Question

First post
Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#21 - 2015-03-13 04:20:42 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
That's what rigor rigs are for. Using rapid heavies in a lvl 4 doesn't make sense in most situations.

Rapid heavies will usually outperform cruise missiles if they're utilized properly. They take out ships faster so you lose less DPS to NPC repairs. They're particularly effective (without rigors or flares) against frigates and cruisers.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#22 - 2015-03-13 04:27:58 UTC
120ish dps difference in missile dps between standard missile boat and rattlesnake. Plus rattlesnake has 700ish drone dps. however rattlesnake missiles are slow and more prone to getting hit by defenders. and the damage delay is greater so you are more prone to wasting volleys. and sentry drones don't move, where heavies have travel time, so you aren't always applying drone dps either.

it is a pretty cool ship but I find it annoying to fly, and that is on an alt with perfect missile skills and 5% implants.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#23 - 2015-03-13 04:44:38 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Dunno why, but most PVE pilots brawl, so they have a ship set up to tank the world.
All PVE i used to kite.
Machariel with artillery, get to range and print isk. Drones for the scram frigs, too easy.
Loki was interesting but made it so easy it was hard to stay awake.


I'd say it is more like most pve pilots are lazy and have no mind for efficiency. by fitting for low dps they MUST then use remaining slots for tank.

when used right brawler boats need the least tank as they kill the rats very quickly. A blaster kronos or vindy in something like damsel is just funny.

In general kiting has plenty of problems in its own. with Turrets that means doing less dps. With missiles it means doing less dps as defnders can catch missiles more easily, and you will waste volleys unless you pay way too much attention volley counting. although on a paladin it works pretty well thanks to the insane range with multi. I will admit I have arty on my mach, but I only use it for missions where I need to hit a few targets at various ranges and the mach's mobility is the most important factor. For most missions I would probably fly with ACs, and mainly had an AC mach for a long time.

once you can do over 1k dps with reasonable projection tank is pretty irrelevant. most of my ships have a lazy omnitank as I cba to switch it between missions, and I don't have any resist holes for gankers to go after.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Falken Falcon
#24 - 2015-03-13 07:03:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
That's what rigor rigs are for. Using rapid heavies in a lvl 4 doesn't make sense in most situations.

Rapid heavies will usually outperform cruise missiles if they're utilized properly. They take out ships faster so you lose less DPS to NPC repairs. They're particularly effective (without rigors or flares) against frigates and cruisers.
The problem with them is that you lose quite good bit of dps on the reload, but they do kill all the things when they are cycling

Aye, Sea Turtles

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#25 - 2015-03-13 08:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
That's what rigor rigs are for. Using rapid heavies in a lvl 4 doesn't make sense in most situations.

Rapid heavies will usually outperform cruise missiles if they're utilized properly. They take out ships faster so you lose less DPS to NPC repairs. They're particularly effective (without rigors or flares) against frigates and cruisers.


But about a 3rd of the time they're reloading (50 seconds dps, then 35 seconds reload) so the slightly increased base dps (even with better application) doesn't make it worth it, not even slightly. Besides, heavies still suck vs frigates anyway, that's what your drones are for. With 2 rigor/1 flare you can get cruise apply enough damage so that cruiser get hit just fine.

The only way to get more dps out of them is if you go heavy fury, but then you still have to account for reloading which brings overall dps back to cruise level but with the added annoyance of a lack of range and of course reloading every so often.

For lvl 3 rapid heavy raven makes sense, for lvl 4 it doesn't (exceptions always exist depending on mission of course).
Kestrix
The Whispering
#26 - 2015-03-13 08:46:46 UTC
I use a Rattlesnake. not that expensive, easy to fit (does not need anything over T2) and can survive anything a lvl 4 mission can throw at it.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#27 - 2015-03-13 09:22:27 UTC
This thread has been moved to Missions & Complexes.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#28 - 2015-03-13 09:55:01 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
But about a 3rd of the time they're reloading (50 seconds dps, then 35 seconds reload) so the slightly increased base dps (even with better application) doesn't make it worth it, not even slightly. Besides, heavies still suck vs frigates anyway, that's what your drones are for. With 2 rigor/1 flare you can get cruise apply enough damage so that cruiser get hit just fine.

The only way to get more dps out of them is if you go heavy fury, but then you still have to account for reloading which brings overall dps back to cruise level but with the added annoyance of a lack of range and of course reloading every so often.

For lvl 3 rapid heavy raven makes sense, for lvl 4 it doesn't (exceptions always exist depending on mission of course).

Compared to the damage application with cruise missiles they'll melt frigates and cruisers in 2-3 volleys. Yes, there is a longer reload time - but you can still be applying drone damage during this.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Falken Falcon
#29 - 2015-03-13 10:04:05 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
But about a 3rd of the time they're reloading (50 seconds dps, then 35 seconds reload) so the slightly increased base dps (even with better application) doesn't make it worth it, not even slightly. Besides, heavies still suck vs frigates anyway, that's what your drones are for. With 2 rigor/1 flare you can get cruise apply enough damage so that cruiser get hit just fine.

The only way to get more dps out of them is if you go heavy fury, but then you still have to account for reloading which brings overall dps back to cruise level but with the added annoyance of a lack of range and of course reloading every so often.

For lvl 3 rapid heavy raven makes sense, for lvl 4 it doesn't (exceptions always exist depending on mission of course).

Compared to the damage application with cruise missiles they'll melt frigates and cruisers in 2-3 volleys. Yes, there is a longer reload time - but you can still be applying drone damage during this.
You can use precision cruise missiles for the cruisers and keep applying drones to frigs and/or cruisers while you don't have to stop shooting.
Rapids are good for pvp when you need high damage for a shortish time. In pve you need constant damage over longish time

Aye, Sea Turtles

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#30 - 2015-03-13 10:30:59 UTC
Falken Falcon wrote:
You can use precision cruise missiles for the cruisers and keep applying drones to frigs and/or cruisers while you don't have to stop shooting. Rapids are good for pvp when you need high damage for a shortish time. In pve you need constant damage over longish time

You can, but by the time you factor in swapping ammunition to precision and back you're fast approaching the same reload time.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Warmonger Simon
Trinity Alpha Zero
#31 - 2015-03-13 10:33:59 UTC
You don't need missiles to deal with frigs/cruisers in rattle. Sentries with two omni's takes care of them in few volleys in (15-100km range) while you shoot BS'es with your cruises.
Falken Falcon
#32 - 2015-03-13 10:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Falken Falcon
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Falken Falcon wrote:
You can use precision cruise missiles for the cruisers and keep applying drones to frigs and/or cruisers while you don't have to stop shooting. Rapids are good for pvp when you need high damage for a shortish time. In pve you need constant damage over longish time

You can, but by the time you factor in swapping ammunition to precision and back you're fast approaching the same reload time.
You have precisions pre realoaded when you enter the pocket and then start shooting till you have killed all cruisers, once they are dead you put furys in. No extra time wasted if you manage to coordinate it with an emptying magazine, if not, then 10 seconds.

Edit:
Warmonger Simon wrote:
You don't need missiles to deal with frigs/cruisers in rattle. Sentries with two omni's takes care of them in few volleys in (15-100km range) while you shoot BS'es with your cruises.

Also this.

Aye, Sea Turtles

Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#33 - 2015-03-13 11:36:59 UTC
Raven -> Navy Raven -> Tengu -> Golem

Get basic skills for the raven or navy raven if you can afford it and start working towards that tengu, the answer to almost every eve "what should i fly?" question is the tengu.

If you can fly all 3 plus a fast mwd frig you can easily make over 120m isk an hour blitzing l4 missions. Each mission requires a different ship for maximum efficiency.

Rattlesnake is a fine choice too, though i wasn't overly impressed with it when compared to a tengu. just found it to be a lot of extra training out of the way for not really any benefits
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2015-03-13 12:07:44 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Falken Falcon wrote:
You can use precision cruise missiles for the cruisers and keep applying drones to frigs and/or cruisers while you don't have to stop shooting. Rapids are good for pvp when you need high damage for a shortish time. In pve you need constant damage over longish time

You can, but by the time you factor in swapping ammunition to precision and back you're fast approaching the same reload time.


RHML are best for level 3 mission blitzing. 99% of the time you can do the mission without reloading.
ashley Eoner
#35 - 2015-03-13 20:25:49 UTC
Falken Falcon wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Falken Falcon wrote:
You can use precision cruise missiles for the cruisers and keep applying drones to frigs and/or cruisers while you don't have to stop shooting. Rapids are good for pvp when you need high damage for a shortish time. In pve you need constant damage over longish time

You can, but by the time you factor in swapping ammunition to precision and back you're fast approaching the same reload time.
You have precisions pre realoaded when you enter the pocket and then start shooting till you have killed all cruisers, once they are dead you put furys in. No extra time wasted if you manage to coordinate it with an emptying clip, if not, then 10 seconds.

Edit:
Warmonger Simon wrote:
You don't need missiles to deal with frigs/cruisers in rattle. Sentries with two omni's takes care of them in few volleys in (15-100km range) while you shoot BS'es with your cruises.

Also this.

It's always a magazine btw.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#36 - 2015-03-13 21:12:06 UTC
Missiles suck. Turrets are better. Switch to turrets.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-03-13 22:26:06 UTC
Raven.

Read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=411035

LMJD Raven with Auto Targeting missiles is pretty easy to fit and to fly. You will be doing l4 like a pro in no time.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#38 - 2015-03-15 16:38:37 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Raven.

Read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=411035

LMJD Raven with Auto Targeting missiles is pretty easy to fit and to fly. You will be doing l4 like a pro in no time.


What you mean to say is "is low dps and tends to 3waste cruise ammo on frigates because they're the closest and as such it's pretty terrible to fly"
ACESsiggy
Deaths Consortium
#39 - 2015-03-15 17:04:05 UTC
My advice would be to avoid drone boatsSad

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-03-15 18:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleidascope
Gregor Parud wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Raven.

Read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=411035

LMJD Raven with Auto Targeting missiles is pretty easy to fit and to fly. You will be doing l4 like a pro in no time.


What you mean to say is "is low dps and tends to 3waste cruise ammo on frigates because they're the closest and as such it's pretty terrible to fly"

auto targeting cruise + light scout drones kill frigates pretty quick.

It seems to me that OP is not a mission running pro nor a bittervet. The OP now has choices, do a cheap ship cheap fit and do L4 succesfully, or do billion isk ship and fit and do L4 succesfully. The end result is the same. And nobody is stopping OP from moving on to billion isk ship and fit later. Hek, just training skills for billion isk ship and fit will likely force OP to use cheap ship cheap fit.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

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