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Consistency in Meta Levels/Goodness.
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PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#1 - 2011-12-23 06:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
So, just throwing out this crazy notion, that Meta 5 (tech II) should be better, than meta 4 (still tech 1).

I see plenty of examples where the meta 4 is simply better, and the T2 version is actually worse, despite needing higher skills to fit. What is the point of this?

Examples:

Stassis Web II, worse than Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor. Same % of velocity reduced, same range, but the T2 version uses more cap per cycle, and needs more cpu/pg to fit. WHY?!

See Rolled Tungsten plates, and a myriad of other examples that don't make sense.

Faction stuff, that makes sense, rarity, also higher meta levels, but why is meta 4, which is pretty damn common, better than meta 5?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2011-12-23 06:51:41 UTC
Because “better” comes in different forms.

Meta 4 has some advantages over T2; T2 has some advantages over Meta 4.

There are plenty of higher-meta items that are worse than T2, for much the same reasons.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#3 - 2011-12-23 07:08:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Because “better” comes in different forms.

Meta 4 has some advantages over T2; T2 has some advantages over Meta 4.

There are plenty of higher-meta items that are worse than T2, for much the same reasons.

SO why should Meta 5 be worse than Meta 4? Isn't the general rule of thumb that the higher the meta, the better the item? What purpose does having a meta 5 item be worse then the comparative meta 4 serve?
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#4 - 2011-12-23 08:09:25 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Because “better” comes in different forms.

Meta 4 has some advantages over T2; T2 has some advantages over Meta 4.

There are plenty of higher-meta items that are worse than T2, for much the same reasons.

SO why should Meta 5 be worse than Meta 4? Isn't the general rule of thumb that the higher the meta, the better the item? What purpose does having a meta 5 item be worse then the comparative meta 4 serve?

When this is true, the meta 4 item is usually relatively expensive in comparison. Hence the main advantage of tech 2 is not it's inherent awesomeness, but the cost effectiveness of buying it over meta items.

The supremacy of meta4 over T2 items in many respects is quite widely known, and I don't think there's really a valid reason to change it.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#5 - 2011-12-23 08:16:32 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Because “better” comes in different forms.

Meta 4 has some advantages over T2; T2 has some advantages over Meta 4.

There are plenty of higher-meta items that are worse than T2, for much the same reasons.

SO why should Meta 5 be worse than Meta 4? Isn't the general rule of thumb that the higher the meta, the better the item? What purpose does having a meta 5 item be worse then the comparative meta 4 serve?

Same reason: because “worse" comes in different forms.
T2 has a massive advantage over meta4 in that the can be manufactured on demand, rather than relying on random drops.

Yes, higher meta is usualle better than lower meta in some way, but not in every way. In some cases, you want the benefits of the higher-meta item; in other cases, the lower-meta will fit your (other) needs.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#6 - 2011-12-23 08:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
I think that many mods are fine. Weapons are fine because of t2 ammo and specialization bonus. Shield extenders because they give less HP. Meta 4 damage mods I don't think give as much damage. High-meta DCUs are rare enough to be stupidly expensive. For almost all of these there's a very reasonable tradeoff (usually fitting-related) that makes both viable options.

Problem mods (off the top of my head) are...
-Armor plates (seriously? t2 plates are the shittiest things ever, and named plates are very common loot drops).
-Target painters (T2 painter = 24 CPU. Best named is 16 or thereabouts)


and...I can't really think of anything else off the top of my head (maybe things like ODs, istabs and nanos that have no fitting cost
anyway). Just fix the ones that are unbalanced.

EDIT: Christ on a bike how did I forget the most obvious? MWDs. T2 MWDs are **** in every way compared to named, including price.


Quote:
Stassis Web II, worse than Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor. Same % of velocity reduced, same range, but the T2 version uses more cap per cycle, and needs more cpu/pg to fit. WHY?!


They're rare enough in loot that they're expensive as all ****, too. Like DCUs. Seems fine to me.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-23 08:50:59 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Stassis Web II, worse than Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor. Same % of velocity reduced, same range, but the T2 version uses more cap per cycle, and needs more cpu/pg to fit. WHY?!


T2 requires higher fitting because it's cheap.

Quote:
Faction stuff, that makes sense, rarity, also higher meta levels, but why is meta 4, which is pretty damn common, better than meta 5?


It really isn't.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#8 - 2011-12-23 11:06:34 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
Double Post
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#9 - 2011-12-23 11:08:05 UTC
My beef, is the lack of consistency. Meta 2 is always better than Meta 1. Meta 3 is always better than Meta 2, Meta 4 is always better than Meta 3, but meta 5 is sometimes worse than meta 4?

what the hell? I get that t2 is user made and thus cheaper, but then it should be worse than meta 4 across the board, not better in some cases.

CONSISTENCY, it makes things eaaaasier. If you're going to have T2 modules that require more strict fitting requirements, at least make them more strict for a reason, or lower their meta value.

A market item's price should have no bearing on it's worth on a ship. The worth on the ship, should determine its price.

I.e. This module should be more expensive because it is better, not better because it is cheaper.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#10 - 2011-12-23 11:11:08 UTC
Depending on the item, skills may improve the T2 item. Other than that, chances are CCP would weaken the meta4 item, not better the T2 one. I would rather let the sleeping dog lie.