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how to L4 for beginner
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Kerr Avonn
#21 - 2015-03-11 17:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerr Avonn
It's not a maelstrom the OP is flying a MAELSTROM !
The fit I posted is a BURST tank, and YOU DO NOT need to run it all the time.
But since your throwing number at me, here a a few of my own:
My Maels turret DPS is 848 with 1400mm +drone DPS just tops the 1000 mark (13.6k alpha)
Two mission spec hards tanks long enough to survive and reduce incoming damage to a managable level.
Over heated the ship travels 425mps, enough to kite ANY B/Ss & B/C's and quick enough to match trans/angular and hit VERY hard.
This is more than enough for all but 2 or 3 lv4's where I might need a little more tank and a little less spank.
Granted it's not the best ship to run Lv4's but that was not what the OP wanted an answer to.
I was mearly posting a 'better' Maelstrom, more capable and less likely to pop at the 1st sign of trouble, basically more suited to his needs.

And only after this do we get in to the nitty gritty of absolute 'BEST' ships for lv4's, BUT THIS AINT THAT THREAD.
Paranoid Loyd
#22 - 2015-03-11 18:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Kerr Avonn wrote:

But since your throwing number at me, here a a few of my own:
My Maels turret DPS is 848 with 1400mm +drone DPS just tops the 1000 mark (13.6k alpha)
Two mission spec hards tanks long enough to survive and reduce incoming damage to a managable level.
Over heated the ship travels 425mps.



With all Vs I'm getting 638 DPS (9,085.9 alpha) with drones and 389 m/s with heat.
Care to explain how you are getting the numbers you posted with the fit you posted or are you referring to a different fit?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#23 - 2015-03-11 18:18:54 UTC
First time when I started to run lvl4 mission. I fitted for heavy tank and something against scramblers...

OP, once you learned each mission, you'll know which fits needed for mission next time.
Kerr Avonn
#24 - 2015-03-11 18:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerr Avonn
The number are from a different optimized fit.



[Maelstrom, Maelstrom: Lvl4]

Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Gyrostabilizer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type Explosive Deflection Field
Gist X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warrior TP-300 x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-603
Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Motion Prediction MR-705
Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Fuel Conservation FC-803
Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905
Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Large Projectile Turret LP-1005
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#25 - 2015-03-11 19:24:12 UTC
Pfft! Maelstrom. All you need is a Tornado, decent skills, knowledge of target priority, and knowledge on how to kite.

A word of warning: This fit should not be used against missile users (Guristas). I have used it to great effect versus Serps, Blood Raiders, Sansha, and Angels. It will take a lot longer to complete L4s than a properly fit BS.

[Tornado, Tornado fit]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2015-03-11 21:59:43 UTC
to op maelstrom is a good start for missions
but there are 2 ways of thinking for fitting them
either 800mm ac or 1400 arties
both have advantages also don't group all your arties together (overkill)
with an artillery fit u stay mostly out of damage range (exception guristas) and u will use an mjd
800mm u need at least an ab probably better an mwd to speed burst into the enemy's
but downside to this strategy is cap and maelstrom is pretty darn slow
For fit in the low skilled region i would recomand 3 rat specific (2 primary damage 1 secondary) resistance amps (no cap drain but worse resist boni than the fields) + x-l booster + prop mod in the mids, for the lows dc gyros and te's rest is pretty much your choice. PS check if your cap is holding atleast for 15minutes without prop mod running
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-03-11 22:20:55 UTC
Sentry drones.

That is all.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2015-03-12 00:06:32 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Sentry drones.

That is all.

Bad advice is bad.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Little Kicks
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-03-12 04:28:36 UTC
Maelstrom-->Machariel-->Vargur was my progression. Play around with 800 ACs and 1400 Arties and get a feel for how you like to mission. You'll be in the Mael for a while, so experiment with cap boosters vs cap stable, mwd vs ab, undertanked... etc.

Dropping a mobile depot and MTU will really help you out. If you're zooming around, not as much; but especially if you know you're going to be webbed, it opens up your options. Bring extra tank and gyros and wcs.

Lastly, don't omni tank. Look up the mission, fit the suggested tank and ammo. That EM hole should stay there, as you're turning down faction missions anyway, right?

best of luck
erg cz
ErgoDron
#30 - 2015-03-12 08:56:56 UTC
Kerr Avonn wrote:
The number are from a different optimized fit.



Did you concidered to use Semiconductor Memory Cell instead of Capacitor Control Circuits?

Anyway, this gank magnet you posted is not for beginner. Not even for intermediate. I do not speak about skills, I speak about knowing triggers and NOS. Once you scrammed you really need to know what to do since you have no escape possibility. Smash the supplier mission is one good example if you you know what I am talking about. And you are really low in capacitor life, so NOS cruisers will be a problem. Not to mention, that that DPS comes from faction ammunition and I personally hate additional costs. Thats why I fly 150 km range Dominix with Tachyon beams ;) But it is a very different approach.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Kerr Avonn
#31 - 2015-03-12 12:13:00 UTC
I tried Semiconductors a long time ago but prefered the faster recharge rate, I can sit at 25% cap quite happily and for a long time just bouncing around the peak recharge rate.

Gank magnate? these are not Officer mods you know.
CPU is very, VERY tight so the mods are more than just bling. They are essential.

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner - Bought via LP
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster - 35m
Gist X-Type Explosive Deflection Field - 13m
Gist X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field - 35m

Faction gyro's @ 53 million a pop (way more expensive than any of my mid slots) and are standard for anyone who has run a few Lv4's. So if that make me a gank magnate it also makes 90% of mission runners everywhere a gank magnate. Infact I am far less a magnate than ANYONE in a faction hull.
My Hull screams 'vanilla' and I d-scan regular in populated systems, I have insta-undocks in every station exit.
I see combat probes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'm gone.
The most expensive mod on the ship was the Rep Fleet TE @ 95 million and for the minimal gain it's not really worth it, so TBH... I sold it.
I have had this ship in it's current form for over 4 years. Shocked

Being scrammed is not an issue that concerns me in the slightest, my main worry is being webbed.
I usually reject Nos missions or just blitz in a shuttle (don't recall the name of the mission) because I can't be arsed to refit or change ships.

I make and sell many, many wonderful things.
Although I don't make and sell ammo (the market is saturated with ammo sellers), I just make it for myself and convert to faction via the LP store.
Faction ammo running cost for 1400mm are minimal even at 10k per volley.
A Ingus
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
#32 - 2015-03-12 20:53:32 UTC
Teb-tenggeri Skir wrote:
Hi,
I wanted to move on to L4 missions so I saved up every ISK for 2 weeks and bought myself new shiny Mealstrom.
It exploded after 2 hours on first Assault mission Ugh
At first, the mission was going all right. I was half way clearing first room when **** happened.
I was 4 x sensor jummed, webbed and warp scrambled all at once. My drones got soon destroyed. So I couldnt hit the close orbiting frigates, nor target anything more than 14 km away. Ship eventually run out of capasitor and exploded.

Now I have a lot of time to figure out how to fly such missions before I save up for new BS.

I seriously wasnt expecting every second NPC to use ewar on me to such extent.
please give me some tips before my next BS will explode.

Thx in advance

Maelstrom is ok as a beginning level 4 mission runner because of the tanking bonus. However, running one against Serpentis is a little more difficult. You probably need to fit a sensor booster in a mid because of the damping. And I would also suggest a MJD or other prop mod, and a damage control, as standard on any mission ship when you are starting out. You also might want to carry an extra couple or flight of light drones in case something similar happens.

There is a website called eve survival. Google it. It will tell you all about each mission and the rats therein.

There are two ways to approach this mission with a Mael. One is to get distance and snipe it. Will take longer, but safer. For this tactic you would MJD to a distance and 1400 arty away. If you have sentry drones they will supplement your ranged damage well. Because arty damage at that range is rather weak.

The other way is to fit 800mm AC and a web (and a MWD or AB in another mid). Most Serps like to come in close and when they get there their damage can be fierce. If they are already in close you don't have to worry so much about the damping. However, a few might stay at a range where your AC won't hit for much. You can leave them for last as their damage is somewhat less than the close guys. Then motor to them, web them and kill them.

The assault can be a difficult mission. The first room is the hardest. That is why you need to read the mission description at eve-survival. That way you hopefully avoid getting your tank overwhelmed.

When you get more experienced in missions sometimes you will not get worried about having a warp disrupting frig on you. The worst thing is when you mess up a trigger and find too much incoming damage. This can be where a MJD might save you.

You also might want to consider a typhoon for missioning. One ship does not fit all, well at least, fit all missions well. Some missions are made for missiles (sansha), some are better to armor tank than shield (bloods, sansha, maybe serps) and vice versa. So Training armor and missile skills will open another avenue of mission battleship right there within Minmatar.

The best thing to do as far as fitting ships is get PYFA or EFT and play around on them. Once you understand the basics like tailoring resist mods to the rats, having consistent and appropriate range and type of damage dealing, and not doing stupid things like dual tanking things will become much easier, almost snooze inducing eventually.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#33 - 2015-03-13 21:20:08 UTC
Kerr Avonn wrote:
I tried Semiconductors a long time ago but prefered the faster recharge rate, I can sit at 25% cap quite happily and for a long time just bouncing around the peak recharge rate.

Gank magnate? these are not Officer mods you know.
CPU is very, VERY tight so the mods are more than just bling. They are essential.

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner - Bought via LP
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster - 35m
Gist X-Type Explosive Deflection Field - 13m
Gist X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field - 35m

Faction gyro's @ 53 million a pop (way more expensive than any of my mid slots) and are standard for anyone who has run a few Lv4's. So if that make me a gank magnate it also makes 90% of mission runners everywhere a gank magnate. Infact I am far less a magnate than ANYONE in a faction hull.
My Hull screams 'vanilla' and I d-scan regular in populated systems, I have insta-undocks in every station exit.
I see combat probes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'm gone.
The most expensive mod on the ship was the Rep Fleet TE @ 95 million and for the minimal gain it's not really worth it, so TBH... I sold it.
I have had this ship in it's current form for over 4 years. Shocked

Being scrammed is not an issue that concerns me in the slightest, my main worry is being webbed.
I usually reject Nos missions or just blitz in a shuttle (don't recall the name of the mission) because I can't be arsed to refit or change ships.

I make and sell many, many wonderful things.
Although I don't make and sell ammo (the market is saturated with ammo sellers), I just make it for myself and convert to faction via the LP store.
Faction ammo running cost for 1400mm are minimal even at 10k per volley.


Deadspace fitting a Maelstrom? Really?
Paranoid Loyd
#34 - 2015-03-13 21:36:46 UTC
Kerr Avonn wrote:
Gank magnet?
Yes, it is. With 3-4 friends I could kill your ship for less than 60 mil and the potential profit is 250-500 mil.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2015-03-14 19:31:35 UTC
Any T1 battleship can do L4 missions, some are better than others, but that's largely irrelevant when starting out, any will do.

Mission according to your pocket and trained skills.

For PvE you only have 2 things to worry about
Tank & Gank
(ok 3 if you include pc-jihadi's)

Missioning, whilst relatively straight forward, does has a learning curve.
Reinforcement Triggers, Room Agro Triggers, blitzable targets and so forth.

eve-survival is your friend, bookmark it.

start out the learning overtanked, it's easier to learn things when there is a ship around your pod.
Local repair Module +4 Hardeners (2+2 or 2+1+1 depending on NPC damage type spread)

as you learn how to run missions more effectively your tank can be gradually shifted to
Local repair Module +2 Hardeners (1+1 or Omni+1 depending on NPC damage type spread)

you'll be replacing those tank modules with either damage application or damage boosting modules

essentially experience + improved skills allow you to turn DPS into part of your overall tanking strategy


finally
fun/hr is more important than isk/hr (imo)
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2015-03-14 19:48:16 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Any T1 battleship can do L4 missions, some are better than others, but that's largely irrelevant when starting out, any will do.

Mission according to your pocket and trained skills.

For PvE you only have 2 things to worry about
Tank & Gank
(ok 3 if you include pc-jihadi's)

Missioning, whilst relatively straight forward, does has a learning curve.
Reinforcement Triggers, Room Agro Triggers, blitzable targets and so forth.

eve-survival is your friend, bookmark it.

start out the learning overtanked, it's easier to learn things when there is a ship around your pod.
Local repair Module +4 Hardeners (2+2 or 2+1+1 depending on NPC damage type spread)

as you learn how to run missions more effectively your tank can be gradually shifted to
Local repair Module +2 Hardeners (1+1 or Omni+1 depending on NPC damage type spread)

you'll be replacing those tank modules with either damage application or damage boosting modules

essentially experience + improved skills allow you to turn DPS into part of your overall tanking strategy


finally
fun/hr is more important than isk/hr (imo)



that is so true, i started out with a dual tanked domi some years back with nearly no dps to raven navy i had last flown a year ago which only tanked 300 dps is cap injected but alphas cruiser and bc and 2 to 3 salvos for bs. overall it doubled to tripled my bounty tick. but its always better to start safe and play smart. But for fun/hr sry that has nothing to do with missions :P
Kerr Avonn
#37 - 2015-03-15 04:19:45 UTC
Yes, Deadspace fitting a Maelstrom, is that against the EULA or something?
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2015-03-16 00:32:39 UTC
For a beginner:

1. MJD provides a safety net - once skills improve you can get rid of it for a more optimal module if you want to.

2. Read EVE Survival and fit mission specific tank. Once skills improve you can get lazy and fit omni tank if you want to.
Ambusher Ituin
Roughneck Raiders
#39 - 2015-03-16 21:50:34 UTC
^^This^^ + what Kitty Bear said.

You have T1 weapons, lightly skilled drones and a T2 tank. Your tank is your main attribute and it's supported by the Mael's bonus to shields. Strip out the tracking computers and tracking enhancers and supplement your tank, as Kitty Bear suggested.

Here's a truism: Your DPS doesn't matter if you can't stay on grid.

As you skill up, your gank will eventually come to be a major portion of your tank. But right now, your gank isn't up to the task; so bolster your tank.

Now for some heresy:

I use both short-range and long-range weapon groups on my mission hulls. I know … EVERYBODY says don't mix weapon types.

But I was where you are, only with a Tempest instead of a Mael. The damn frigates were always under my guns and my drone skills weren't adequate to fend them off. I lost a BS and twice was staring at hulls with less than 20% remaining in structure before the last of my drones wiped out the scrammers.

So I said the heck with conventional wisdom, I'm equipping some auto cannons along with my artillery. I liked the result so much I still fit my mission hulls that way (beams and lasers, blasters and rails, arty and ac), even though my skills are high enough that I don't need to.

I don't fit any other hulls with mixed weapon groups … only mission-runners.

CCP kind of recognized the problem and set us up with rapid light missile and rapid heavy missile launchers to help deal with the small fry. But your Mael can't fit launchers, so go ahead and fit ac. If the conventional wisdom doesn't work, don't follow it.

Don't panic now … there'll be plenty of time to do that later.
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