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Black OPS and the need for a re-design

Author
Alexei Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
#21 - 2015-03-11 10:40:15 UTC
Tempelman N wrote:
Hello CCP, Tempelman N here, been playing EVE for a long time, and also been running Bombers Bar for just as long.
I love this game and I also love Bombers, and black ops, I wanted you guys too see my side of blops, share my opinion and maybe convince CCP to change Blops for the better.

1'st Blops need a reduction in their jump fituage, why?

- Blops are behind enemy lines, hit and run, having local the way it is now, I have literally been too
the edges of space in the galaxy and had guys wave and say "hey Temp, whats BB doing here" instantly killing
any chance of surprise and ability to be successful. Having NO or very little jump fatigue will allow us to be MOBILE like
we are supposed to be. Since local kill's EVE for any kind of Stealth, the ability to jump quickly gives us the surprise we need.
Right now cov-ops cloaks are nothing more than a game mechanic gimmick with local because they dont give the element of surprise, but thats a whole nother issue.

2'nd Blops need T2 resists. Why?

- Blops are as expensive as Carriers, but less EHP as their T1 counterparts, for a ship worth that much, please give us what we deserve.

3'rd Blops need to be either re-bonused or split into separate classes.

-Idea-
Why not split the blops into two classes, one with E-war bonuses and a bridge, the other with DPS, DPS, DPS but no bridge. The E-war BS should be able to Cov-ops cloak, with these ships NOBODY is forcing an engagement, and now that the E-War BS is no longer a DPS boat, its unlikely ppl will use them to cov-ops up and solo without another ship in support. The DPS Blops will be traditional Blops with a Bonus to its Speed and guns, but only jumping itself opens the door for more ppl to work together. Mabey TIII BS's?




I really like the idea of splitting them in two different ships.
But I like to see the DPS version as a glas cannon with bonuses to "Polarized" guns.

Sprocket Wise
Legio Praetorio
#22 - 2015-03-11 10:57:58 UTC
I agree 100%
Asp IV
Apex Abyss
#23 - 2015-03-11 11:16:59 UTC
Local is more powerful than D-scan. It removes gameplay. Jump into a system and before even loading grid I am looking at your latest/most used ship fittings and kills etc etc. (this is a scanner alt btw)

"Go play in Wormhole Space" is a bad answer if your'e looking to instill chaos and murder in an active null sec pocket.

The only answer is active gameplay mechanics for both victims and bombers/blops.

Module for delay local and a module for the ratting carrier...etc

If you really want to bomb a target don't stick the Tempelman char in local


LOL
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#24 - 2015-03-11 11:17:20 UTC
Interesting ideas. However it still always comes down to one simple fact.

Local breaks the game.

Plain and simple. When i was in LS i would afk cloak all the time, so at least some people wouldn't dock up the millisecond you jump into system. But that didn't work since mostly they just never undocked. For days.

Nullsec, despite not really being much better than highsec ISK wise is as full of care bears as highsec.

As for jump fatigue, i have always said that a multiplicative penalty is probably too much. An additive one seems to achieve the goal without timers that last weeks. Then a 50% fatigue bonus is pretty good.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

JakeMiester
We Farm Volta
#25 - 2015-03-11 11:27:04 UTC
Asp IV wrote:


If you really want to bomb a target don't stick the Tempelman char in local

LOL


Even when completely clean characters with no history of hotdropping come into local, 95% of the time every resident runs towards the nearest POS/Station and sits there for hours until you either leave or die of boredom.

Local is an archaic mechanic that is causing the stagnation of nullsec; remove that and this game will suddenly get interesting again.
Halla Iski Miksiallah
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-03-11 12:02:50 UTC
I Agree with that idea. Showing up in Local sucks !!
Koenig Yazria
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#27 - 2015-03-11 12:22:43 UTC
I am Koenig Yazria, and I approve this message.
Tiberius Shitzlmuch
Pie Eaters Unite
#28 - 2015-03-11 13:01:33 UTC
agree with 1, not with 2, and with slight adjustment 3 can work. I wouldnt have 2 separate ships for DPS and bridge, just a major nerf in DPS when bridge is fitted, bt allows cov ops cloak. or no bridge and a relative buff to dps from the current.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#29 - 2015-03-11 14:23:36 UTC
if you remove local from nullsec then it just makes things too easy, with the addition of cynos you are just making it too easy to be invisible with near instant hotdropping abilities, you would have remove covert cynos (because that and no local and recons not showing on dscan is just too op)

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Farveille
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-03-11 14:40:07 UTC
If you dont like local go play in wormholes


If i'm not mistaken Fozzie said they are thinking about removing/changing Local chat in Nullsec. I think it is a brilliant idea but I also think, with the new sov system coming, that NullSec blocks should be able to upgrade their systems to show who is in local.

As for the Blops changes I agree. Those ships are long to train into and are fairly weak/expensive. I like the idea of having T2 resists the most.
KANIN oman
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-03-11 14:40:51 UTC  |  Edited by: KANIN oman
I agree 100% with Templeman N

There's no element of surprise with the local mechanics. It's easier to change the jump fatigue cooldown timer then any other aspect of the game obviously.

The BLOPS resist is just a must have! There's no other ship class in game that takes that long to train too, are that expensive and have a lesser build in resist. We need a fix on that ASAP.
Calasian
Veiled Legion
Not Purple Shoot It.
#32 - 2015-03-11 14:53:56 UTC
+1 for this
Nerapa
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-03-11 15:03:11 UTC
I am Nerapa and I approve of this message.

Grr goons. fcuk bounties.
Hail Ronuken
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-03-11 15:23:23 UTC
I agree on all three points and strongly encourage CCP to take a look at jump fatigue again. This is definitely a quality of life issue for BLOPS fleets and should be addressed as such.

I guess the question we should all really be asking is was the jump fatigue mechanic added for one reason and the fact that it forces BLOPS fleets to curtail the fun they are having an intended side effect.
Chris Raptor
Wolf Pack Incorporated.
#35 - 2015-03-11 15:28:03 UTC
as an active bridger for bombers bar, I do like the idea re-balancing the Black Ops ships into 2 different variants, one for dedicated bridging and one for dedicated combat without the ability to bridge. For the price the Blops cost (properly fit that is) cost in excess of a minimum of 2 billion isk, which with their current role, is a tad bit too overpriced for their current play-ability and how current Blops mechanics work. Id really love to see their useability increased and have the BLOPS more useful and not shiny fit paperweights since they can only do so much and are just extremely expensive to fit and run properly
Letesse V
Runners of Kessel
#36 - 2015-03-11 16:48:30 UTC
+ 1 To these ideas currently with local intel BLOPS is a gimmick, for the expensive ships and long training it should be so much more.

Asp IV
Apex Abyss
#37 - 2015-03-11 16:49:36 UTC
As it stands now the bridger itself is just a glorified black ops taxi mini titan [unless you run a really expensive fit even then it's meh just as CCP intended]. With nerfed jumprange "balanced" with the recent nerf to bridging and jump fatigue..
Blops cause a lot of damage in New Eden, indirectly of course, and ccp has no intention of letting them both bridge and pew pew at the same time. That was the reason behind the nerf to jump mechanics and the blopsing class in general.

Message from ccp is If you rellay want a combat ship that bridges via blops just jump in with T3 (pre nerfed with cloaky module vis a vis tank and gank since you can't have both), the blops mechanic comes with nerfed damage output, unless you step inside aglass cannon bomber (which you pay for by having no tank)

You could fit x-types on your Redeemer instead of beggin for a "free" hull with T2 resist. Even if ccp obliges this "new blops class" combat t2 resist bs will be balanced accordingly making it even pricier than todays "standard" 2 bil fits.



The victims must have counter measure if they run the risk of getting this new T2 COMBAT blops ship right on top of their precious ratter.

Imo Blops is a complex issue, even without that discussion about Local and intel and this proposed affordable t2 resist combat BS hotdropper split. Blops taxi and another hull; combat taxi. Why not?

A new blops tank and gank class you say? Make it [a super expensive] T3 while your'e at it.

The jump fatigue mechanic is a testamtent to all them killmails that blops and hot dropping causes. Killing 1 bird with 2 stones; content that is. Content is sitting in a Pos starring at your timer/taxi/titan.

CCP message is: Go play your non fatigued alt ,and continue to pimp your already super expensive "not exacktly combat blops bs" NO "affordable" T2 RESIST Black Ops BS FOR U! Since over 9000 ratting carrier pilots will cry out in pain...

If you start to tinker with one "ship class" or the invention of a new hull, it will effect a lot of thingh That is why it's hard to balance Blops and indeed eve in general. Entosis module anyone? LOL

Be aligned be very aligned, the Tempelman has your number...


Martin Vanzyl
EVE University
Ivy League
#38 - 2015-03-11 16:52:13 UTC
+1 I Agree

You should only show up in Local in Nullsec if you came through a Gate (its how it works in the Lore even), if you come via Wormhole or Blops drop ... then there should be a delay at least 60 sec to Max 2 min (Could be fudged as detection lag for the system sensors to detect your ship's warp engine 'footprint' or whatever other technobabble that can be invented)
Ashura Akiga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-03-11 18:10:50 UTC
+ 1 on all Tempelman has said - get it sorted out guys - PLEASE!!!

what about changing the cov ops cloak such that you dont appear in local until you chat? As long as the module is not offlined, you are wormhole invisible (obviously still scannable unless you activate the module).
for the BS - create a similar effect with a BLOPS cloak. Not a problem with the current movement restrictions, but at least it could move in a more sneaky manner. tricky to do in code, but not impossible. Or change the name 'stealth bomber' to 'flamboyant bang bang ship' .

Currently local is like telling a foreign country exactly when you deploy special forces into their AOR - not a nice effect as these guys dont want you to know they are there until rounds start flying down range!
Haidere
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-03-11 19:03:23 UTC
+1 for these proposals