Ships & Modules

Navy ships often don't follow the hulls ther based on (navy scorp/navy osprey) so faction Teir 2 BC's wouldnt haver to be op, instead of ad rake with and extra high/mid etc it could be a totaly differnt platoform (hybrids?) and same for ther cane. Although navt Teir 1 BC's would be cooler IMO.

Well their IS one thing that needs a tech one/cheep verson of that works...............



Logi ships, skill intensive/skill dead-end, hi cost/low inshure ability. honestly its a roll that to meany pilots wait to long to get in to (me inculded). If the made navy BC and gave them rep-bonuses and tank bonuses ( but not a role bonuse letting you use large reps/rep insane distances/transfure cap at a bonus) I would be ok with it. Other wise I would RAGE at navy/faction BC's!!

Command ships allready use this hulls.

Tier 2 hulls aren't re-used atm. But a Navy Drake .... please no.
Drake and Caladri T3 allready dominates compared to Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar (not so much but still). Not another sub-BS class ship, which is conssidered "must be trained to do XY" from Caldari.

In addition I don't realy see the need for Navy BC except fanzy hull designes (want Blood or EoM Harbinger!! *g*).
They would be to close to Tier 1 BS (baby Gaddon?) and T3/CS allready fill this space.

T1 cruisers would still be totally obsolete if we deleted all Tier 2 BCs from the game. Both sets of faction cruisers, pirate cruisers, T2 cruisers, Tier 1 BCs, and Command Ships totally obsolete them all on their own. Hell, a well flown AF has a pretty good chance of taking down even the "Best" T1 cruiser.



The only really fail HACs I can think of are the Eagle and Cerberus - though I suppose a Diemost has traditionally deserved an honorable mention here for reasons all of its own. Just because they can't go toe to toe with a T1 ship class and be guaranteed a win doesn't mean that they aren't valuable or have a purpose.




The Myrm isn't up to par with the Cane, Drake, or Binger. Its a Myrm issue.



The Drake is exceedingly powerful - IMO it is one of the best brawlers in the game. In another configuration, its a great nano ship with fantastic damage projection. In another configuration its a fantastic bait tank. However, thats simply flexibility - not necessarily overpoweredness.

Furthermore, your suggestions would go beyond merely adjusting the Drake in one or more of these roles and move into the realm of utterly neutering it. They are MUCH stronger than the nerf the Myrm received years ago.



Oh come off the hyperbole. They did not remove every other ship in the game and you claiming that they did just goes to show that you're terribly out of touch you are. The ship class is mostly fine and well balanced. Furthermore, they're one of the most popular and available ship classes in the game. It would be a huge mistake to nerf the daylights out of Tier 2 BCs.

Here's my prediction of a Tier 2 BC nerf:
- Overall accomplishes nothing. T1 cruisers and HACs are still not viable for the roles people are demanding for them.
- Discourages PVP because effective and cheap hulls are no longer available.
- Discourages many of the more risky types of PVE because effective and cheap hulls are no longer available.
- Enrages a huge portion of the player base for the dubious benefit of potentially making some extremely tiny segment happy.

I could go on at length but really, nerfing Tier 2 BCs is just flat stupid - both politically and with regards to game mechanics.

-Liang

My god your like a don't get it machine today.

Talking about deleting Battlecruisers all the time. The only one who is mentioning deleting them is you as you think anyone suggested it for a second.

You keep talking about the uselessness of T1 Cruisers as an example in your argument. I said I am gonna bold and capitalize this for you (THEY NEED A BUFF).

Buffing 6 of the Battlecruisers to the OPness of the Drake and Cane will not help Balance them with Cruisers which you admit is an issue. Proper Cruiser roles that are effective and manageable Battlecruisers for there cost will

/Whoosh

I am not talking about what you fly at all. I am talking range in specific what range is effective. Heavies hit to Fleet Ranges and bonused Heavies go past fleet ranges. If they put a Range Bonus on a Drake you would consider that a nerf and that is the problem.

Range Bonuses do not help Heavy Missiles in a realistic way.

Another take.

If we are going to have any more Navy ships, I think it should be Navy Destroyers to be honest.

We already have Navy Frigates, Cruisers and Battleships. We have plenty of Battlecruisers as it is, so a slightly better Destroyer would be nice.

No more DPS than they currently have but a bit more tank.

You don't seem to get it. The existence of Tier 2 Battlecruisers is totally immaterial to whether or not T1 cruisers are useful. Thus, you cannot and should not use them as a reason for nerfing Tier 2 BCs. If you want to strictly make the argument that T1 cruisers need a boost of some variety, I'm ok with that.

But it has nothing at all to do with a battlecruiser thread.



The only way to solve this problem is to do something about people warping out before your missiles arrive - thats the biggest reason why the Cerb is inferior to all other sniper HACs, despite actually maintaining a better EHP/DPS ratio at range.



What?

-Liang

I would rather have the tourny cruisers available through invention than a navy bc anyday.

so what if this screws with ship collectors.

Nerfing them could make it easier to balance Cruisers. I am not directly speaking to specifics but Scan Res, and Speed definitely, pehaps HP and bonuses. I am not of course saying nerf everyone the same but bonus adjustments to make some more useful and others more in line with a Battlecruiser baseline if you would. You don't have to bring them all in line with the best but you don't need to bring them in line with the worst ether.

Decide exactly how useful you want them to be then buff Cruisers accordingly.

Sounds about right. Point I was making; do we really need Navy BC's, especially in the face of other changes that would be more welcome?

Yes, it would probably be nice but I could pimp a drake to about 300 mil and it'd probably fill the role.