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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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How much is pvp skill and how much of it is SP?

Author
Memphis Baas
#21 - 2015-03-10 09:02:47 UTC
Lachesiss wrote:
I scared the crap out of a 400 man alliance.


TMI, for real, we didn't need to know that they didn't have time to reach their bathrooms.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-03-10 09:34:10 UTC
Lets put it this way. I'm an almost perfect frigate pilot in terms of SP. Perfect gunnery skills, near perfect fitting skills, high navigation, electronics, targeting, and tank skills. My number of solo kills can be measured on my fingers. My number of solo attempts is easily four times that. My character SP doesn't mean **** without knowing ship matchups and remembering to overheat my reps.

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Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-03-10 10:33:40 UTC
Neither, it's numbers.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2015-03-10 11:57:17 UTC
As someone that does not PvP I can not speak from personal experience but what I can say is that there are plenty of stories from blogs and even in the forums here if you dig for them as well as youtube videos of people in very young characters racking up incredible killboard histories. There are also plenty of tears here on the forums from new players that have purchased high skill point characters and are still having trouble with basic PvE even not to mention PvP.

Further in Eve each ship has it's counter so if you go up against the wrong ship you will loose regardless of how well you do and if you go up against the right ship you can win regardless of how "good" the other pilot is. Also small ships have advantages over bigger ships that make it possible for a frigate to take down a battleship solo so bigger is not always better. Additionally small ships train fast so a few months into this game if you focus on one race's frigates and maybe even destroyers you can get pretty well skilled in that short time and since many skills carry over from race to race you can then cross train other races much quicker.

I think another point worth noting is that here in Eve there are no queueable battlegrounds or arena matches. Fights between equally geared "max level" characters do not exist. Eve combat is all about gaining the upper hand or turning the odds in your favor not so much winning or loosing an even up match. Because of this and other factors a lot of the time winning in PvP can be about faking out your opponent to make them think they have the upper hand when you actually have an "ace in the hole". Of course sometimes he's playing lame duck as well.

I think this is probably just a more detailed explanation of the knowing which fights to engage in that the actual PvPers in this thread have mentioned or hinted at.

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Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-03-10 14:09:27 UTC
PvP:

10% SP
20% Skill
100% Concentrated power of will
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#26 - 2015-03-10 14:36:35 UTC
First you need a good idea of how eve pvp is working,
afterwards more SP are beneficial but only up to a certain point.
If yuo're in some sort of mirror matchup kestrel vs. kestrel, sp can easily be the deciding factor.

Else, knowledge what your ship does, what their ships are doing and what's going on in general are big steps forward already. Clahim (youtube) can suggest this channel for his commentaries.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2015-03-10 15:07:17 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
SP gets you choice and access to different modules, nothing more......


I completely disagree.

Higher levels of Navigation skills will increase your speed, agility and the ability to run your AB/MWD for longer. Higher levels of Gunnery Skills will affect falloff, optimal, damage and tracking. Higher levels of Drones skills increase damage, speed of the drone and it's hitpoint. Armour & Shield skills increase raw hitpoints and resistances. Engineering skills increase capacitor, cap recharge and a host of other benefits. Higher levels of Thermodynamics allow you to overheat for longer. Fitting skills mean less need for fitting mods or rigs, which means those slots can be filled with damage or tank instead, further increasing your chances.

Skills don't just affect which ships and modules you can USE, they have a huge effect on how well those modules PERFORM.
While you're not wrong in that skills do affect the performance of the modules and ships it is still true that someone with a high SP character and no player skills is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Quote:
That said, yes, knowing how to manually pilot a ship and other similar 'player skill' can dig you out of a hole, but to suggest that player skill is the only thing that counts is, to be frank, utter bollocks.
I never actually said that, I said that SP is only a small part of overall performance, one that is usually outweighed by player skills.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#28 - 2015-03-10 17:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
There is a thread on Reddit today about a heavily tanked Burst with a mighty 73 DPS at max skill, destroying a untanked Garmur.

As a Garmur is a difficult ship to catch, having no tank isn't really surprising. The surprising part is catching one at all. In any normal engagement, the Burst pilot wouldn't stand a chance vs. the Garmur.

The Burst pilot was sitting in a FW complex, on the warp-in beacon, where all ships are forced to appear, and enabling the Burst to tackle the Garmur.

This is an example of strategy winning (heavy tank and positioning) vs. a much more advanced ship.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-03-10 17:45:57 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
SP gets you choice and access to different modules, nothing more......


I completely disagree.

Higher levels of Navigation skills will increase your speed, agility and the ability to run your AB/MWD for longer. Higher levels of Gunnery Skills will affect falloff, optimal, damage and tracking. Higher levels of Drones skills increase damage, speed of the drone and it's hitpoint. Armour & Shield skills increase raw hitpoints and resistances. Engineering skills increase capacitor, cap recharge and a host of other benefits. Higher levels of Thermodynamics allow you to overheat for longer. Fitting skills mean less need for fitting mods or rigs, which means those slots can be filled with damage or tank instead, further increasing your chances.

Skills don't just affect which ships and modules you can USE, they have a huge effect on how well those modules PERFORM.

That said, yes, knowing how to manually pilot a ship and other similar 'player skill' can dig you out of a hole, but to suggest that player skill is the only thing that counts is, to be frank, utter bollocks.


Yet the differencw between a level 3 and 5 pilot is 10 - 20% stat difference at tops.

Which easily can be overcome by using your brains

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Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2015-03-10 17:47:00 UTC
This video is an example. You cna pvp solo at low SP, but you -have- to know what you are doing and have very specific skills trained.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Here is a guy in a T1 ship with 20 days of training simply WRECKING nullbears.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-03-10 18:14:49 UTC
Laser Bantam.

Little busy, but will elaborate later.

Grrr.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#32 - 2015-03-10 19:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Azda Ja wrote:
Laser Bantam.

Little busy, but will elaborate later.
Laser Shield Tanked Nano Thorax tbh Twisted

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2015-03-10 19:50:18 UTC
OP

It is all skill. Not just your ability to use what you have, but also understanding your opponents ability to use what he has.

If you are really interested in learning that concept you are more than welcome to convo me ingame or send me an evemail.

I am actually thinking of restarting the Somali BootCamp for training newbro in PVP. Still deciding on that.

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Syrilian
Doomheim
#34 - 2015-03-10 19:52:24 UTC
Thanks everyone on your input. I am starting to get a very small understanding of how PVP works in this game. Mostly it involves me running away at the moment lol
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-03-10 20:03:09 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Laser Shield Tanked Nano Thorax tbh Twisted

I demand an EFT format fit Jonah. I must see this monstrosity.

Grrr.

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-03-10 20:37:40 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
OP

It is all skill. Not just your ability to use what you have, but also understanding your opponents ability to use what he has.

If you are really interested in learning that concept you are more than welcome to convo me ingame or send me an evemail.

I am actually thinking of restarting the Somali BootCamp for training newbro in PVP. Still deciding on that.


I would join with an alt....just to sp...uhm...learn stuff.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#37 - 2015-03-10 23:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
J'Poll wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
OP

It is all skill. Not just your ability to use what you have, but also understanding your opponents ability to use what he has.

If you are really interested in learning that concept you are more than welcome to convo me ingame or send me an evemail.

I am actually thinking of restarting the Somali BootCamp for training newbro in PVP. Still deciding on that.


I would join with an alt....just to sp...uhm...learn stuff.
Pretty much this.

Azda Ja wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Laser Shield Tanked Nano Thorax tbh Twisted

I demand an EFT format fit Jonah. I must see this monstrosity.
It's a troll fit, so why not Twisted. *

Although I did see a near identical fit used successfully in RvB a few years ago

[Thorax: Laserax The Bastard Child]

5x Focused Medium Pulse Laser II (Conflagration M)

Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Stasis Webifier II or Adaptive Invulnerability Field II (The original fit this is from dates back to when the Thorax only had 3 mids)

Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
2x Heat Sink II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

5x Hammerhead II

With skills at V and everything overheated you get 3+km/s and just shy of 500 DPS with Conflag at close range, 400 with Scorch at range. Make sure you have exotic dancers, janitors and assorted commodities in cargo for when you whelp it.

You can find a hull tanked laser Thorax and other amusingly derpy fits that might, or might not, work in UAEs tongue in cheek generic save highsec thread

*If any newbies are tempted to try this, don't. It's only effective in the hands of a skilled player, and that's mainly because it's a troll.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#38 - 2015-03-11 12:45:17 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

You can find a hull tanked laser Thorax and other amusingly derpy fits that might, or might not, work in UAEs tongue in cheek generic save highsec thread

*If any newbies are tempted to try this, don't. It's only effective in the hands of a skilled player, and that's mainly because it's a troll.

I actually have one of those armor blackbirds from the thread.
I'm waiting for the perfect moment to use it.
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