These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

how to L4 for beginner
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Teb-tenggeri Skir
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-03-10 15:14:59 UTC
Hi,
I wanted to move on to L4 missions so I saved up every ISK for 2 weeks and bought myself new shiny Mealstrom.
It exploded after 2 hours on first Assault mission Ugh
At first, the mission was going all right. I was half way clearing first room when **** happened.
I was 4 x sensor jummed, webbed and warp scrambled all at once. My drones got soon destroyed. So I couldnt hit the close orbiting frigates, nor target anything more than 14 km away. Ship eventually run out of capasitor and exploded.

Now I have a lot of time to figure out how to fly such missions before I save up for new BS.

I seriously wasnt expecting every second NPC to use ewar on me to such extent.
please give me some tips before my next BS will explode.

Thx in advance
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2015-03-10 16:53:48 UTC
What rats are you flying against? Serpentis?

Did you try recalling your drones to get the aggro off of them?

Did you fit a MJD?
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#3 - 2015-03-10 17:03:52 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Teb-tenggeri Skir wrote:
Hi,
I wanted to move on to L4 missions so I saved up every ISK for 2 weeks and bought myself new shiny Mealstrom.
It exploded after 2 hours on first Assault mission Ugh
At first, the mission was going all right. I was half way clearing first room when **** happened.
I was 4 x sensor jummed, webbed and warp scrambled all at once. My drones got soon destroyed. So I couldnt hit the close orbiting frigates, nor target anything more than 14 km away. Ship eventually run out of capasitor and exploded.

Now I have a lot of time to figure out how to fly such missions before I save up for new BS.

I seriously wasnt expecting every second NPC to use ewar on me to such extent.
please give me some tips before my next BS will explode.

Thx in advance


Which version of the assault was this? Serpentis or Guristas?

If guristas, move to doing missions for gallente or minmatar.... Guristas are going to be a pain in a maelstrom.

Before considering the EWAR, projectiles dont deal kinetic dmg well, and guristas are tough to outrange. VS a different faction, you can fit for long range, use a MJD, and be at a distance that helps you avoid most of the damage. Concerning frigates that get under your guns, you can use the MJD which will cause the frigates to move directly towards you, lowering their angular, and allowing you to hit them.

When it comes to EWAR, guristas jam and its going to be a pain. If you were to do missions for minmatar, the majority of the ewar you're exposed to will be target painting woot! and I cant off the top of my head think of any guristas missions in the minmatar pool.

So my suggestion in a nutshell is do missions for minmatar for now. One more thing, checking the mission report at eve survival would be a good idea. You'll know what ships have ewar beforehand, as well as blitz details like the acceleration gates being unlocked in the assault. Esp on a low SP toon, blitz your missions whenever you can. Combat will be eating large chunks of your mission time with low SP/low DPS. Only kill the required stuff if you can get away with it.
Orlacc
#4 - 2015-03-10 17:58:05 UTC
This may help

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#5 - 2015-03-10 19:05:03 UTC
as your new, I would advise overkilling on your tank, most of my missions in a t1 ship I go heavy tank...takes longer to do the mission as you lose dps for the tank but when you come out alive, its better than the latter option that you experienced. Now I have really high weapon and tank skills and fly EW immune marauders

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Kerr Avonn
#6 - 2015-03-10 19:53:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerr Avonn
Teb-tenggeri Skir wrote:

please give me some tips before my next BS will explode.


If I run missions I run them in a Maelstrom, have done for yonks.
Link your exploded fitting so I can see what level you can fit to.
I might be able to give you a few pointers in fitting smarter.

Beyond that, the only other advice I can think thing of is this:
If you see four ships and three are named 'John' and the fourth is named 'Jane', whatever you do, don't shoot Jane.
Paranoid Loyd
#7 - 2015-03-10 20:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Kerr Avonn wrote:
If you see four ships and three are named 'John' and the fourth is named 'Jane', whatever you do, don't shoot Jane.
This is generally a good tip, although one of the exceptions is in the Assault. The trigger is the entirety of group two in the first room.

Orlacc linked the site that will help you determine triggers as well as which resists to tank against.

Assuming you were up against Serpentis based on your comment about shortened targeting range, it would have helped a lot to have a sensor booster with a range script installed, two if you have the spare slots.

Show us your fit, most of the problem probably lies in there. That and you are only a few months old and probably shouldn't really be flying a battleship yet unless your complete focus has been on flying a BS. Upload your skills to eveboard so we can have a look at those as well to tell you what you should train before you try again.

In the mean time run level 3s, it may seem slow but the fact you are probably not trained enough to efficiently run level 4s means you will actually probably make more continuing to run level 3s.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-03-10 23:35:04 UTC
I am also curious to see the failed fit.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Teb-tenggeri Skir
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-03-10 23:50:06 UTC
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I really appreciate in-game help I received.

To answer the questions:
NPC were from Serpentis Faction in Frarn Solar System

I fitted the ship to what I thought would be safe and hard to crack setup:
8 x 1200 'scout' meta 4 Altilery
3 x Gyrostabs II
2 x Tracking Enchancer II

1x Shield Extender II
1x Shield EM Amplifier II
1x Shield thermal hardener II
1x Shield invuln... field II
1x Shield Large booster II
1x MWD

1x Cap recharge rate increasing rig

I was thinking maybe it would be good idea to remove 2x large guns and put 2x small guns from Destroyer. I would easely get rid of those frigates. but I was already told its a bad idea.
stoicfaux
#10 - 2015-03-11 00:08:49 UTC
Also, bring along a mobile depot. It takes a minute to deploy, so deploy it early in a pocket. If you get overwhelmed, swap out modules for additional tank, such as a damage control unit, extra shield hardeners, a cap boosters, and/or cap recharge modules.
MWDs decrease your maximum cap, so remove the MWD to increase your cap recharge. You may also want to carry a few extra light drones in your cargohold and use the mobile depot to put them into your drone bay.

If things get bad, fit tanking modules, replace the MWD with a MJD, scoop up the mobile depot, MJD away (mission NPC warp scramblers cannot stop it,) and then warp out.

It's been awhile, but I think fitting warp core stabs will counter mission NPC warp scramblers (I know that warp core stabs work against the new Burner NPCs.)


But yeah, getting sensor damped by Serpentis is annoying. At least until you can fly a Vargur that is...

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-03-11 00:20:37 UTC
Teb-tenggeri Skir wrote:
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I really appreciate in-game help I received.

To answer the questions:
NPC were from Serpentis Faction in Frarn Solar System

I fitted the ship to what I thought would be safe and hard to crack setup:
8 x 1200 'scout' meta 4 Altilery
3 x Gyrostabs II
2 x Tracking Enchancer II

1x Shield Extender II
1x Shield EM Amplifier II
1x Shield thermal hardener II
1x Shield invuln... field II
1x Shield Large booster II
1x MWD

1x Cap recharge rate increasing rig

I was thinking maybe it would be good idea to remove 2x large guns and put 2x small guns from Destroyer. I would easely get rid of those frigates. but I was already told its a bad idea.

As far as anti frig defense, drones + light missile launchers/rapid light missile launchers. In that context you would have had 6 long guns and 2 missile launchers and drones. Long guns for cruisers and up, missile launchers+drones for frigs and once frigs are dead for everything else.

The fact that frigs got close enough to ew you tells me that you did not know/did not read the contents of the mission, someone above linked eve survival, there you can read what the mission will contain. READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the points of long guns is that you kill things from long range. I don't see a single mod in your fit that increases your targeting range... You don't want to be close to rats... You want to be far away. Distance is part of your defense.

The next thing of using long guns is that you are supposed to kite anything smaller than you. Since you fly bs, that is frigs and cruisers and bc. When it comes to rat bs, you can either kite or orbit, depends on how much damage you are receiving. But! Rat frigs, being smaller and faster, will always close up on you, and separate from larger rat ships, first. So kiting does two things for you:
1) the rats burn toward you, which means they fly straight at you, which means your guns don't need to do tracking
2) the faster rats (frigs) will burn toward you, you kite them, so the rat frigs leave rat bs behind as they try to close on you and this has an effect of pushing you further from the rat bs. Which means that you receive less damage from rats because only a fraction of rats is in range to hurt you.

Finally. The rat ew! L4 is very different from l1/2/3. You very rarely seen rat ew in l1/2/3. In l4 rats ew you in just about every mission. It is for this reason that when I decided to move from l3 to l4 I trained straight for caldari Raven bs.

In conclusion. Don't run missions with gurista rats. Their ew is the worsed. You might want to avoid sansha too.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Nycha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-03-11 01:09:55 UTC
I dont use a maelstrom but this should work:

[Maelstrom, test]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
X-Large Clarity Ward Booster I

1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon
1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon
1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon
1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon
1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon
1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon
1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Acolyte II x5
Hammerhead II x5

I used the modules you mentioned and made some slight changes. Use tech 1 drones or faction ones if you cant use t2.
Serpentis are kin/therm so Im not sure why you used an em amplifier in the mid?
Anyway I plugged the em hole with 2 rigs and you have 2 middle slots for ratspecific hardeners (?) + the invul + dcuii + the xlarge shield booster. Which would give vs serpentis, with perfect skills, a 700dps active tank. So even with lower skill the tank is substantial. The cap booster is a must as I switched to an xl shield booster.
If you feel the need to get range use the mjd, use your light drones to kill frigs under your guns. The med drones are... umm. placeholders I guess.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#13 - 2015-03-11 04:54:37 UTC
Not real familiar with the Maelstrom but checking the hardeners using EvE HQ and PYFA you have the wrong ones, for serpentis use

Thermic dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II.

The rigs suggested by Nycha would not be the best choices either as the 2 x EM screen reinforcer would be worthless against serpentis.

Unless you are fitting a ship to use against a specific NPC it is usually best especially for newer players to use more generalized rigs and leave the resists for the specific damage types to the hardeners that can be easily changed. My thoughts on the rigs would be

Capacitor rigs

rigs to aide guns
metastasis adjuster for tracking
locus coordinator for optimal range
collision accelerator fro increased damage
burst aerator for rate of fire
ambit extension for falloff

rigs to aid shields
defense field purger for increased recharge rate
defense field extender to increase max shield amount

Again the various screen reinforcer rigs I would avoid.
Kerr Avonn
#14 - 2015-03-11 12:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerr Avonn
What jumps out right away is you where not tanked to fight Serpentis.
They deal Kinetic & Thermal damage and your tank is trying to cover ALL bases, this is not optimal. (your plugging an EM hole that does not need to be plugged)
Bookmark this somewhere , you MUST tank and fit for specific damage types to effectivly run Lv4'S

Secondly you have mixed a buffer tank (Shield Extender II) with an active tank (Shield booster II.)
Maelstrom is bonused heavily to ACTIVE (burst) tanking, so you should focus 100% on that, un-fit the Shield Extender II.

As for your idea to mix guns and fit some small anti frig guns, NO! never mix gun types, it is sub optimal.
Instead train drone skill to a higher standard, learn which frigs web/scram and primary those as and when they spawn.
Only when those frigs are 30+km away can 1200mm/1400mm arties pick them off (this ability is VERY skill dependant especially for 1400mm's), closer than that you are 100% reliant on drones.
To make the most of and learn how best to use your large 'Arties' try this interactive guide: www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf
You will need to download Adobe's standalone Flash Projector to play it.

The starter fit I recoments is this:
[Maelstrom, Trainer Fit]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warrior TP-300 x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


Power Diagnostic System II because:
a) Extra PG so will aid fitting (a major issue I remember from back in the day)
b) It increases shield recharge and shield size, not to be sniffed at when your new.
Eventually 'if' you go with 1400mm's you will want four Gyrostabilizer's and one Tracking Enhancer in the low slots.

Cap Recharger II
It's was a while before I left the reassuring comfort of fitting Cap Rechargers and due the amount of mistakes I made early on that lead to many full room agro moments, I strongly recomend fitting these to begin with.
As it stands the Cap now last close to 4 minutes, (AB off*) very good for a X-Large burst fit.

You might want to consider replacing a Cap Recharger II and fitting a Tracking Computer on missions you feel comfortable with as better tracking equals better damage appliaction.

Warrior TP-300's
With no frigs left to shoot these little TP-300's help swing the balance against cruisers increasing their sig-rad thus aiding your turrets ability to hit the 'meat' of the target.
To begin with though I advise an extra fleet of light combat drones.

Modules you can swap with:
1st Cap Recharger II > Shield Boost Amp - Sacrifice Cap recharge for Shield recharge.
2nd Cap Recharger II > Tracking Computer (speed scripted)
Eventually 'if' you go with 1400mm's you will want two Tracking Computers fitted with speed scripts.

OFC change the two Adaptive Invulnerability Field II's for mission specific damage resistance types.

If you follow the teachings of the interactive tracking guide (posted above) you WILL become a better, more dangerous pilot and not have to suffer the ignominy of fitting a MJD.

Hope this helps.



EDIT....
Other thoughts
Capacitor peak recharge rate is at roughly 25% so if you have less than 25% capacitor left consider aligning to a celestial ready to GTFO.

Unless you are fitting 800mm AC's do not group your guns, this is inefficient and you will lose overall dps and waste ammo.
erg cz
ErgoDron
#15 - 2015-03-11 14:01:48 UTC
Too many info in this thread, IMHO.

You failed to escape for the one single reason = no micro jump drive. LMJD is a "get out of here" button. NPC use disuptors, so even if you are scrammed - you still can jump away.
You should watch capacitor though - some rats neut a lot and it can happens, that you will not be able to jump just because you will be out of capacitor.

Ewar can be dealed two ways - auto-targeting missiles and sentry drones. Even if you jammed to 100 % your drones will still fire. And they usually fire exactly at jammers first.

There is a number of ships, concidered good for L4 missions. Maelstrom is not on the list:
Maradeurs
Rattlesnake
Machariel
Dominix.

Each of them is very specific. If you are low in skill points toward any of them - I suggest you will take a look at Typhoon Fleet Issue. Enough drone space for full flight of sentry drones, medium drones and light drones plus bigger natural tank are worth additional costs, IMHO. Ability to use missiles and sentry drones will ensure, that you will always fire the most appropriate damage type according to eve-survival info. It is also second quickiest BS hull in the game.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Kerr Avonn
#16 - 2015-03-11 14:16:20 UTC
erg cz wrote:
You failed to escape for the one single reason = no micro jump drive.

Wrong, he failed because he was fit poorly.

erg cz wrote:
LMJD is a "get out of here" button.

It's actually the "I have no idea how to fight NPC's at close range" button.

erg cz wrote:
NPC use disuptors, so even if you are scrammed - you still can jump away.

And this is where skills come in to it, even If I am scrammed I have nothing to worry about, my tank is strong and my drones will make short work of the scramming frig, absolutly no need to be 100km away doing **** poor damage.

erg cz wrote:
Ewar can be dealed two ways - auto-targeting missiles and sentry drones. Even if you jammed to 100 % your drones will still fire. And they usually fire exactly at jammers first.

He is in a Mealstrom, nither of these two options are viable

erg cz wrote:
There is a number of ships, concidered good for L4 missions. Maelstrom is not on the list:

Then it's a bad list.
Nycha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-03-11 14:22:32 UTC
Do not use the AB fitting posted above. Its an ancient fitting out of the times before mjd existed. There is no way for you to get out of a dangerous situation with it and with only 3 min cap life for your xl, youll find yourself pretty often warping out of the mission pocket. Beside its with a 2 slot omni tank with no rat specific hardner and some target painter drones (!).
Kerr Avonn
#18 - 2015-03-11 14:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerr Avonn
Nycha wrote:
Do not use the AB fitting posted above. Its an ancient fitting out of the times before mjd existed. There is no way for you to get out of a dangerous situation with it and with only 3 min cap life for your xl, youll find yourself pretty often warping out of the mission pocket. Beside its with a 2 slot omni tank with no rat specific hardner and some target painter drones (!).


Kerr Avonn wrote:
OFC change the two Adaptive Invulnerability Field II's for mission specific damage resistance types.
&
Kerr Avonn wrote:
To begin with though I advise an extra fleet of light combat drones.


Yea, I thought thatss what I wrote.

Oh and btw 'my' Mael only has 1m34s cap life and has done for donkeys, and that's way more than enough.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-03-11 14:43:15 UTC
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=youtube+eve+online+missions

Invaluable information for newb missioniers

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
erg cz
ErgoDron
#20 - 2015-03-11 16:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: erg cz
Kerr Avonn wrote:

erg cz wrote:
LMJD is a "get out of here" button.

It's actually the "I have no idea how to fight NPC's at close range" button.

erg cz wrote:
NPC use disuptors, so even if you are scrammed - you still can jump away.

And this is where skills come in to it, even If I am scrammed I have nothing to worry about, my tank is strong and my drones will make short work of the scramming frig, absolutly no need to be 100km away doing **** poor damage.


Your fit does 638 DPS from very close range, when you need to run your shield booster all the time. Best ammo and 5 hammerhead II.

This fit:
[Dominix, 112 km targeting range]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II

1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Nuclear L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Nuclear L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Nuclear L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Nuclear L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I

Garde II x5
Warden II x4
Bouncer II x5

apply over 700 DPS from 100 km range with bouncers, even more with curators. So who is doing " **** poor damage"? Drones give you option to do exact kind of damage, that is needed. 100 km is so far away, that you will rearely need to use your shield booster. So you can concider this fit cap stable.
With Garde II and EMP ammunition it will do over 880 damage. So even in close range it is better. But who needs to " fight NPC's at close range" if he can do this from long range even more effectively.
I put here "all V" stats so we can compare, with OP real skills picture can be very different. But from the long run I am still persuaded, that you advice him very wrong tool to do the job. Close up fights are good in Machariel and OP needs to train Gallente BS for it anyway.

Kerr Avonn wrote:

erg cz wrote:
Ewar can be dealed two ways - auto-targeting missiles and sentry drones. Even if you jammed to 100 % your drones will still fire. And they usually fire exactly at jammers first.

He is in a Mealstrom, nither of these two options are viable

Exactly. Thats why Mealstrom is not on the list.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
12Next page