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Remove Anoms From Null sec, Change them into Remote Concord Missions.
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Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#41 - 2015-03-06 18:28:28 UTC
Rejuice K wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
[quote=Rejuice K]

I see your point, Even if it is very biased and skewed.

Null Powers would enjoy consolidating their power base. However, They've already done that, **Staging Systems**.
A change like this would allow them to "cram most" of their players into 1-2 systems allowing for extremely bloby and fast response fleets.


Thats exactly what they havent done yet, in staging systems there is usually none to very little PvE going on, I would say that the character distribution is rather 75% in ratting space and 25% in the staging system because of that.



Then your point is really invalid when you think about it, Lets assume your #'s are right (I have no idea so f et). If the above change, or a type of change similar happened. The #'s simply, Would not change. It would shift, 75% in staging system, 25% else where.

You'll never get 100% of a power in one system, It won't happen, For reasons that I know and don't know.
A change like this would have no bearing on someone like you, The #'s you face will still be roughly the same, And the ETA to which the respond to your threat, Would be dependent on players, timezone, willingness to fight.
Which is almost exactly what it is now.

So unless your disagreement is somewhere buried in the text and I've missed it, I don't see how the change would hurt/help you or anyone who plays like you. Assuming Verge here.


Im saying its not **** right now but it would be **** if every alliance basically had one system full of people and rest of space dead or with that ocasional traveling ceptor/explorer.

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Rejuice K
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-03-06 18:34:54 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Rejuice K wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
[quote=Rejuice K]

I see your point, Even if it is very biased and skewed.

Null Powers would enjoy consolidating their power base. However, They've already done that, **Staging Systems**.
A change like this would allow them to "cram most" of their players into 1-2 systems allowing for extremely bloby and fast response fleets.


Thats exactly what they havent done yet, in staging systems there is usually none to very little PvE going on, I would say that the character distribution is rather 75% in ratting space and 25% in the staging system because of that.



Then your point is really invalid when you think about it, Lets assume your #'s are right (I have no idea so f et). If the above change, or a type of change similar happened. The #'s simply, Would not change. It would shift, 75% in staging system, 25% else where.

You'll never get 100% of a power in one system, It won't happen, For reasons that I know and don't know.
A change like this would have no bearing on someone like you, The #'s you face will still be roughly the same, And the ETA to which the respond to your threat, Would be dependent on players, timezone, willingness to fight.
Which is almost exactly what it is now.

So unless your disagreement is somewhere buried in the text and I've missed it, I don't see how the change would hurt/help you or anyone who plays like you. Assuming Verge here.


Im saying its not **** right now but it would be **** if every alliance basically had one system full of people and rest of space dead or with that ocasional traveling ceptor/explorer.


Thats what I figured, And that wouldn't happen. The space would stay the same in terms of population. I feel anyway. Could be wrong.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2015-03-06 18:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Rejuice K wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
[quote=Rejuice K]

I see your point, Even if it is very biased and skewed.

Null Powers would enjoy consolidating their power base. However, They've already done that, **Staging Systems**.
A change like this would allow them to "cram most" of their players into 1-2 systems allowing for extremely bloby and fast response fleets.


Thats exactly what they havent done yet, in staging systems there is usually none to very little PvE going on, I would say that the character distribution is rather 75% in ratting space and 25% in the staging system because of that.



Then your point is really invalid when you think about it, Lets assume your #'s are right (I have no idea so f et). If the above change, or a type of change similar happened. The #'s simply, Would not change. It would shift, 75% in staging system, 25% else where.

You'll never get 100% of a power in one system, It won't happen, For reasons that I know and don't know.
A change like this would have no bearing on someone like you, The #'s you face will still be roughly the same, And the ETA to which the respond to your threat, Would be dependent on players, timezone, willingness to fight.
Which is almost exactly what it is now.

So unless your disagreement is somewhere buried in the text and I've missed it, I don't see how the change would hurt/help you or anyone who plays like you. Assuming Verge here.


Im saying its not **** right now but it would be **** if every alliance basically had one system full of people and rest of space dead or with that ocasional traveling ceptor/explorer.


yoy mean like in wh space?

come one .... let people have fun together, all you duders want is easy free kills.
Right now there is no reason to play "together" with people, only some ops like save this pos, or that structure.


In WH you run anoms in fleets, in incursions you run in fleets, but no in null.
In Null you can't eaven be in same system, coz people have alt's ; i'm ratting with 4 accounts, how many more toons can fit in?



This change would be very hethy for nullhealthy.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2015-03-06 19:30:25 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:


It does, actually. You said a system cant support a small corp and I prove you wrong.




Often this "5 man corp" is a one person with alt's ... many people in null are ratting with 2-5 accounts.

witch mean two real people can fit in a system at the same time.
Promiscuous Medusa
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-03-07 11:52:03 UTC
Rejuice K wrote:
Promiscuous Medusa wrote:
Dont stay in one system then ffs!

Its already too easy to make ISK in nul unless youre just cowering in a corner. I'm not even taking into account running small gangs into WHs and clearing out sites in there. Stop being lazy, stop being scared and go through a few gates. Making ISK easier to make is NOT a good thing. It drives plex prices up not to mention everything else in the market so even though everyone is suddenly richer they still have the same means.

If you rent for some reason let me suggest going to NPC null. No rent, open stations and so easy to make an utter fortunes.



Hmmm, Where to begin.

ISK is not easy to make in Null. Not the vast fortunes you claim to be.
Yes you can hack/salvage, But that is a very small revanue when compared to doing high rated DED sites, Or when compared to Incursions/Missions in high-sec.
Yes you can clear C5's,c4's,c3's for ISK. Again, Not the average pilot can venture into such things, And wormholes among being some of the much "harder" PVE content in the game. Are infested with people WHO WANT to catch you in a gank.
TL;DR - Yes, You can print ISK in null. No, not everyone can do it. Everyone can run Missions, Everyone can exchange LP, Everyone can (within reason) get into an incursion fleet (Obv some SP required).

Now to exclude all the other BS you pitched, The point behind the thread is to make ANOMS a VIABLE source of income, Or create a VIABLE = as EASILY attained income as compared to Incursions, Missons.
**For the sake of argument, WH's are strictly off board as the ISK made there is to high to compare here, WH's were designed that way**

The basic thinking of eve is, ***The more risk, The more reward***
I'm in Null, Anyone and everyone can do to me as they please, Even with standings, being in the same corp, etc etc.
In highsec, You're safe from almost all types of griefing at this point (Clearly plenty exists, But they're slowly limiting it).
So, By the games definition, Should Null be able to make THE SAME AMOUNT of ISK as Missions/Incursions do? With the same effort? I'd settle for just the same, I don't even need more.

Before you start throwing you're weight around, Let me say I have ISK (I'm not rich by any means, But I have ISK). I make most of it PVEing, Doing exactly what you said, DED Sites, Wh's day tripping, etc etc. But, I'd like to see everything have its own version of isk making. Null currently latches onto everyone elses.

This is to all not argue the amount of ISK invovled in DED / WH sites. In terms of what you invest to just run them, All for the chance of getting NOTHING. While in missions, You ALWAYS GET LP.
Incursions, You could make argument that most fleets are blingy, Sure, But as long as you MAKE it to the end, You get paid. In DED Sites, You at best get Overseers Affects, Worth barley what an incursion fleet pulls in 45mins to an hour. And it took you more to scan and then do the site.

What you invest to run a DED? A 10/10 can be run in 2 domis (as can any other). About 200odd mil between 2 pilots for a payoff of usually minimum 400mil up to a max of about 1.5bil. One anom and your ship is paid for and its almost impossible to lose the thing. Even if you get jumped it takes quite a bit to kill you and most of the time tackle doesnt even try and catch you because you can easily pop them before a fleet arrives in most cases. There is a rare occation where you get nothing, but its very very rare. Even if you just get the overseers in the final room you usually get faction from the mid area faction ship.

Not every pilot can run WHs, thats why youre in a CORP. A single low skill pilot can solo low level WHs fairly easily in a lowly drake.

You also know where you can run missions? NPC Null. If you cant support yourself in sov, go there! Its such an underlooked area of the game but its cracking for absolutly everything. DEDs spawn like candy.

It is SO easy to make money in null. Embarasingly easy. So easy that I marvel at people that live there and are always broke. When I play I generally clear plex money in maybe 4 hours (split over 2-3 days).

Again, leave your home system! An ishtar, a mobile depot and go! A stabbed relic inty if if you want almost 100% safety and you'd probably make as much as running L4s and at least its not completely mind numbing like missions are.
Rejuice K
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-03-10 14:27:46 UTC
Promiscuous Medusa wrote:
Rejuice K wrote:
Promiscuous Medusa wrote:
Dont stay in one system then ffs!

Its already too easy to make ISK in nul unless youre just cowering in a corner. I'm not even taking into account running small gangs into WHs and clearing out sites in there. Stop being lazy, stop being scared and go through a few gates. Making ISK easier to make is NOT a good thing. It drives plex prices up not to mention everything else in the market so even though everyone is suddenly richer they still have the same means.

If you rent for some reason let me suggest going to NPC null. No rent, open stations and so easy to make an utter fortunes.



Hmmm, Where to begin.

ISK is not easy to make in Null. Not the vast fortunes you claim to be.
Yes you can hack/salvage, But that is a very small revanue when compared to doing high rated DED sites, Or when compared to Incursions/Missions in high-sec.
Yes you can clear C5's,c4's,c3's for ISK. Again, Not the average pilot can venture into such things, And wormholes among being some of the much "harder" PVE content in the game. Are infested with people WHO WANT to catch you in a gank.
TL;DR - Yes, You can print ISK in null. No, not everyone can do it. Everyone can run Missions, Everyone can exchange LP, Everyone can (within reason) get into an incursion fleet (Obv some SP required).

Now to exclude all the other BS you pitched, The point behind the thread is to make ANOMS a VIABLE source of income, Or create a VIABLE = as EASILY attained income as compared to Incursions, Missons.
**For the sake of argument, WH's are strictly off board as the ISK made there is to high to compare here, WH's were designed that way**

The basic thinking of eve is, ***The more risk, The more reward***
I'm in Null, Anyone and everyone can do to me as they please, Even with standings, being in the same corp, etc etc.
In highsec, You're safe from almost all types of griefing at this point (Clearly plenty exists, But they're slowly limiting it).
So, By the games definition, Should Null be able to make THE SAME AMOUNT of ISK as Missions/Incursions do? With the same effort? I'd settle for just the same, I don't even need more.

Before you start throwing you're weight around, Let me say I have ISK (I'm not rich by any means, But I have ISK). I make most of it PVEing, Doing exactly what you said, DED Sites, Wh's day tripping, etc etc. But, I'd like to see everything have its own version of isk making. Null currently latches onto everyone elses.

This is to all not argue the amount of ISK invovled in DED / WH sites. In terms of what you invest to just run them, All for the chance of getting NOTHING. While in missions, You ALWAYS GET LP.
Incursions, You could make argument that most fleets are blingy, Sure, But as long as you MAKE it to the end, You get paid. In DED Sites, You at best get Overseers Affects, Worth barley what an incursion fleet pulls in 45mins to an hour. And it took you more to scan and then do the site.

What you invest to run a DED? A 10/10 can be run in 2 domis (as can any other). About 200odd mil between 2 pilots for a payoff of usually minimum 400mil up to a max of about 1.5bil. One anom and your ship is paid for and its almost impossible to lose the thing. Even if you get jumped it takes quite a bit to kill you and most of the time tackle doesnt even try and catch you because you can easily pop them before a fleet arrives in most cases. There is a rare occation where you get nothing, but its very very rare. Even if you just get the overseers in the final room you usually get faction from the mid area faction ship.

Not every pilot can run WHs, thats why youre in a CORP. A single low skill pilot can solo low level WHs fairly easily in a lowly drake.

You also know where you can run missions? NPC Null. If you cant support yourself in sov, go there! Its such an underlooked area of the game but its cracking for absolutly everything. DEDs spawn like candy.

It is SO easy to make money in null. Embarasingly easy. So easy that I marvel at people that live there and are always broke. When I play I generally clear plex money in maybe 4 hours (split over 2-3 days).

Again, leave your home system! An ishtar, a mobile depot and go! A stabbed relic inty if if you want almost 100% safety and you'd probably make as much as running L4s and at least its not completely mind numbing like missions are.


You're ignoring all the factors you that influence your argument.
Yes, You can run 10/10's with two Domis, Yes the at the 10/10 level you will normally make SOME ISK.
However, I at best (Playing 2-3 hours average, a day). See 1 10/10 a day (Not to bad). I'm in a corp, That needs ISK. So we share it. The other sites we run will be below 10/10. Which have NO WHERE NEAR the drop rates you claim. I hardly see faction modules in the "middle" parts of sites. And I more often than not get overseers and maybe some trash loot. Yes the payout can be extreme for the time spent.
But, Your way is painfully slow, My way requires more investment.

I live in NPC null by the way, Not Sov. I do this daily, I understand the Pros and Cons.
I also have spent a large portion of time in Wormholes c3-c5's. And, I as a solo player, Can run c5's with full Escalations with a handful of alts. Which is CRAZY lucrative in terms of ISK. Not to even count the new way of doing escalations.

Is removing ANOMS a perfect fix? No, Is changing ANOMS a perfect fix? Maybe, I'm not sure.
But from where I'm sitting, Something needs to happen. Wormholers make ISK hand over fist (granted more investment still)
Incursion runners make ISK hand over fist with no risk, sides an awoxer (null has those too)
Missions, Lets be real. Do whatever the F they want.

Balance needs to be established.
Rejuice K
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-03-10 14:29:41 UTC
Post got to long.

This is also to save the fact, That wormholes can't be argued here. The RISK > Investment > Reward is to high to compare to either Null/High-Sec PvE.

This is strickly comparing ANOMS. No DED Sites (Exploration). To the ISK opportunity of Incursions/Missions.

We've gotten off topic.
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