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[Proposal] Addition of Combat Engineering vessels

Author
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-12-10 12:41:58 UTC
Over the past few months there has been discussion in the Features and Ideas forums of the merit of adding a new class of ships to the game whose purpose will the rapid construction and destruction of deployable structures. So far the reception has been very positive. Here is the link, and I will summarize the discussion so far here if you don't feel like reading through ten pages.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=343692

The general consensus is that there will be two ships, a light and heavy version (Often referred to as Tactical and Strategic combat engineers, respectively). The light version will focus on battlefield maneuverability and be based on a small hull (frigate/destroyer size), while the heavy version will be geared toward heavy deployment and be based on a medium-large hulls (cruiser/battlecruiser).

Combat engineers in general will be bonused toward deploying and removing structures quickly. They will have large cargo bays to facilitate this, but will be light on armament. They will also be equipped with a "demo charge," which will be a weapon that can do massive damage to structures but will be unable to target ships. The exact mechanics of this are up for debate, with some suggesting a hacking-style minigame to target structures instead.

Light/Tactical CE(combat engineer) ships will provide battlefield support through the use of small deployables such as micro-jump arrays and warp bubbles, while also focusing on countering the enemy's use of these. While enabling more dynamic use of such structures, they will also open the door in the future to other structures. Perhaps mines could be brought back in a more re-balanced form, or a "fleet yurt" could be developed that would act as a miniature tower for mobile forces without requiring everyone to have their own.

Meanwhile, heavy/strategic CEs will will be larger and more durable. These could assist in rapid anchoring and onlining of POS towers and modules. A topic of some debate has been whether or not they should also have a heavier demo charge for the takedown of offline POS modules. Their role would be mainly to support a rapid invasion force by building up the supply lines behind the assault waves. This will be especially useful now that a capital fleet can't jump endlessly and will need stopping off points.

I highly recommend reading through the original post, as there were many great suggestions that would be impractical to cover in detail here. I think this would be a great addition to Eve though. Not only would it open the door to more emergent gameplay, but would do so while being its own counter to keep it well balanced.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#2 - 2014-12-15 11:00:41 UTC
I support this idea.
Davey Talvanen
Kingsparrow Wormhole Division
Birds of Prey.
#3 - 2015-01-01 09:50:48 UTC
What about adding a drone bay as a ship like this would seem to have a tendency to use automatic mechanical things for defense/offense
Echo Gengod
MaxGen Biotechnology
#4 - 2015-01-02 10:28:45 UTC
This reminds me of something from Sins of a Solar Empire and therefore I love it.

But first we, as players, would need actual small-scale deployable structures/guns/bombs/etc.
The problem is, that I would assume, with so much cargo space to deploy these types of tactical structures one could just keep deploying, and keep deploying and keep deploying until the entire space is filled.

For this concept, there has to be a form of limiting factor as well as range factor (minimum range between two deployables) or something on the lines of that to prevent just a mass swarm of turrets around a single location or a mass grouping of armor repairers making a single ship nigh-invulnerable.

Either way, trench warfare sounds like it fits into the universe pretty well and might provide smaller alliances/corps more options when wardec'd as well. Sure would also make setting up proper cynos and covert cynos stressful in order to hit the key targets/locations.
Varyah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-01-06 14:13:53 UTC
As mentioned in the other thread. I'd rather see this as an industrial ship (T2) bridging the gap between industrial and combat ships since it can field offensive power.
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-01-06 14:32:58 UTC
Read the other thread, all I can say is that this would likely be a godsend for Nullsec and Wormhole corps who set up and tear down a lot of POSes. In regards to the proposed bonuses posted in the same thread - I could see some interesting usage of the light engineer and heavy engineers to severely cut down on the time required to anchor and online a POS.

Additional thoughts:

The heavy engineers should be relatively speedy, as most POS setups have a lot of offensive modules scattered ~35km from both the tower and each other. Slowboating around to scoop them is a tedious process.

The heavy engineer would also benefit from an ice products hold large enough to hold 1d17h of POS fuel. Not a cargo hold, as that's a lot of space that would result in the ship being used as a fleet resupply tender.

The heavy engineer's Orbital Infrastructure hold is a good idea, but if you want to make it possible to scoop modules to it then there would need to be a bit of work done on Fleet Hangars/other specialized holds to make it possible to scoop POS modules to specialized holds.

Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave

Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#7 - 2015-03-08 11:19:45 UTC
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
make it possible to scoop POS modules to specialized holds.

And we know this is possible as drones can be scooped directly to the drone bay.

Posting to bump and further support this concept.
Alexi Komanov
The Kronos Ritual
#8 - 2015-03-08 18:33:03 UTC
An exellent way to introduce a new set of t2 destroyers and battleships, supported.
Feoria Saissore
Evil League of Evil Corp
#9 - 2015-03-09 20:39:43 UTC
It looks like a way that non-combat toons can assist in major fleet ops and small indy setups as well, I approve

"All I'm sayin is, if The Doctor wanted to save our universe, all he has to do is go back in time and get Firefly back on the air."

Centurax
CSR Engineering Solutions
Citizen's Star Republic
#10 - 2015-03-10 12:38:14 UTC
I highly support any ships that aid in the deployment and removal of POS's. I haven't fully read both threads and apologies if I am repeating anything, but these are my first thoughts on the matter, from my experiences of using and deploying Starbases.

A good bonus for these ships in the possible changes to Starbases is that they can be used to anchor/un-anchor modules at the same time at the same Starbase, that would really helpful.

These ships could use a T3 like subsystems (not a T3 ship though) that could allow you to configure it to a specific role, so if you want ships to drop a tower you might not need the large primary weapon, but on the other hand if you are planning to siege a tower then you don't need a massive cargo bay if this is the role this ship is going to cover. As a combat engineering ship it needs to be adaptive.

I like the idea of a light ship maybe with a primary weapon as an anti structure energy weapon. If this ship is not limited to just deploying things like Mobile Warp Disruptor and can be used to scoop Starbase modules as well, it will need a sizeable cargo bay 10 - 20km3 if you don't want to keep going back and forth to a drop point, as some of those modules can be big for a small ship.

The Heavy Combat Engineering ship could be a problem as in where do you stop, there would be a good number of issues for how big you could make it and how much it should carry for Starbase deployment. Fuel and Stront are the largest items to be delivered to a location, would it be acceptable to carry all that a Starbase needs for a month in one go? Plus it would also need to be able to fit inside WH's maybe C2 and above, so we are looking at at least and Orca sized ship to pull this off I would guess.

If the Heavy Combat Engineering ship were to use a large anti structure weapon, my first thought is yes please, but how powerful to make it I don't know, it would have to be less than a Dreadnought in siege mode but if it works like a doomsday for example uses a lot of fuel to activate it, then would it be acceptable if it took off 10 million hp every 5 minutes?

Personally I don't necessary think adapting industrials or cruisers into further t2 version for this role makes sense, as these ships are very specialized maybe have them belong to a pirate faction or DED would b a good idea. They will need to be generally well tanked and the ability to break through blockades so interdiction nullified would be a good ability. Defence wise drones would be a good idea which would allow the ship to continue doing its job while under fire. If tractor beams could be used to drag in un-anchored structures quickly it would make these ships work really well.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#11 - 2015-03-10 13:14:51 UTC
supported
Although we don't need deployable afk weapons that can be deployed on a gate or belt UNLESS there is a time OR a limit based on skills as this system could be abused to leave a bunch of AFK weapons and then we end up with Vietnam

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Alexi Komanov
The Kronos Ritual
#12 - 2015-03-11 00:47:49 UTC
I agree with Agondray, as much as we all liked mines, I don't see how a deployable weapon system could be balanced in a way that would prevent spam. I do think this is a great idea for a new ship class (or classes). There are plenty of good ideas for deployables in the stickied thread. All we need is for CCP to act.
Cora Namoor
Anson Astrometrics And Assembly
#13 - 2015-03-20 03:50:06 UTC
Well now that CCP has said POS can be placed anywhere; just not next to each other. These ships would get more use. I agree the small should be immune to warp disruption bubbles like interceptors. Let the small one specialize in mobility deployables and siphon units. The large ship would be for POS... But what would make it better then a CovOp transport? Anchoring/UnAnchoring bonuses and/or Onlining Bonus?
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-03-29 05:16:00 UTC
With the proliferation of structures that CCP has announced, along with the re-balancing of current structures, I think this will become even more useful as time goes on. The more structures there are, the more handy it is to have a ship dedicated to dealing with them. At least the small-medium structures.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#15 - 2015-04-23 12:00:10 UTC
bumping to support this concept again.

I would be sad if this thread was locked and the concept forgotten due to lack of attention.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-04-26 07:58:05 UTC
Agreed! I would love to hear if CCP has anything to say about this. This thread has been around for a while now, and the response has been overwhelmingly positive and constructive.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#17 - 2015-05-20 07:17:26 UTC
roll the tumbleweed, this one's getting the "ignore" stamp.

GG all, better luck next time.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-06-02 06:26:54 UTC
CCP must just hate our freedom. Or something like that.
Yosafbridge Ikkala
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-08-25 03:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Yosafbridge Ikkala
Still support this idea from the shadows.

With the POS overhaul on the table more discussion about how this will work with the new sov and structure system is needed. Perhaps a strait up entosis link bonus like cycle time reduction. (Probably to powerful) whatever happens something like this would be a lot of fun to play with. I'd like to see it come with the addition of many more mobile structures that have more short burst bonuses. This ship may be able to see mobile micro jump units have a larger tactical use in any engagement.

No matter what CCP decides to do I just wanted to say that I still support this great idea!

P.S. I know necroed the **** out of this but it was worth it. :)
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-09-08 09:01:51 UTC
Appreciate the support. Still holding out hope that CCP will at least respond on this thread.

Maybe if it were posted on Reddit they'd pay more attention... Seems like they watch that closer than they do their own site.