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@CCP_Rise need help in a Battleship arguement
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#21 - 2015-03-10 04:36:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
/signed, I'd like to see this data.

I don't feel battleships are currently suited to PVP anywhere except highsec (where marauders and rattlers are insane) and structure shooting when you do not expect resistance but are unwilling/unable to field capitals.

It's not that they have no niches, just that those niches are small.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#22 - 2015-03-10 04:42:05 UTC
Even in highsec their utility is limited. You can't catch anything in a battleship, you can't get anywhere quickly and most of them can't apply damage to anything smaller than a battlecruiser if it's competently flown.

Outside of the rare situations where you need to engage a 15-30 man kitchen sink fleet but only have 3 dudes online so you drop vindicators with logistics and for shooting structures battleships aren't even widely used in highsec.

Which is terrible because I have a ton of battleships.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-03-10 06:55:54 UTC
Lachesiss
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-03-10 08:27:38 UTC
So i'm in a typhoon. Its new design is amazing. The output is amazing. I could go on for hours how good this ship is......

Then I realize I have just spent 2 hours aligning and jumping through 5 gates.

*facedesk* Shocked

On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-03-10 08:33:16 UTC
Lachesiss wrote:
So i'm in a typhoon. Its new design is amazing. The output is amazing. I could go on for hours how good this ship is......

Then I realize I have just spent 2 hours aligning and jumping through 5 gates.

*facedesk* Shocked



Just wait until you start shooting at something. That's when I really want to start smashing my face into my desk.
Brutus Utama
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2015-03-10 09:02:16 UTC
As a Fairly new player to eve i was excited to get into a battleship when i initially started but after getting there i realised they are fairly useless outside of PVE.... i will occasionally see one in PvP but it usually dies or runs pretty quickly.... i have since dropped the idea of using a battleship myself and use cruisers..... the DPS isnt much worse and the speed is higher the only downside of this is the EHP tank on the battleship which in turn makes it a good PVE ship.
Kestral Anneto
Eagle Wing Industries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#27 - 2015-03-10 10:35:04 UTC
Brutus Utama wrote:
As a Fairly new player to eve i was excited to get into a battleship when i initially started but after getting there i realised they are fairly useless outside of PVE.... i will occasionally see one in PvP but it usually dies or runs pretty quickly.... i have since dropped the idea of using a battleship myself and use cruisers..... the DPS isnt much worse and the speed is higher the only downside of this is the EHP tank on the battleship which in turn makes it a good PVE ship.


This, if someone that is fairlyu new can see the problem with battleships, you have to wonder what CCP is thinkin, dont you?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2015-03-10 10:54:50 UTC
Just to point out, most structures are killed by dreads and cruisers so you would likely still not get the results you want to see.
Bloody Slave
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-03-10 11:34:09 UTC
What are you talking about?

I can see BS in PvP everywhere doing huge dps, ganking miners, ganking freighters, used extensively in mercs fleets, roaming low and null on small gang fleets, everywhere...

Roll

If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#30 - 2015-03-10 13:32:22 UTC
Before this huge thing about going into small ships in the large battles it was tons of domis just sitting there with drones doing the damage as far as subcaps go, now the next big battle will simply be tons of ishtars all trying to speedtank each other while drones do all the damage.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-03-10 14:16:58 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
You had a dev blog that showed "Battleships are being used" in pvp damage. Can we get that graph without damage done to structures please?


Thanks


to help this is in reference to your Feb 27th, 2015 dev blog
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/balance-changes-coming-in-scylla/?_ga=1.64124652.275548287.1420932288


Ask him on reddit. They usually ignore these threads here in GD
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#32 - 2015-03-10 15:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:

Ask him on reddit. They usually ignore these threads here in GD



If revealing the data supported their point of view I think they would have already shared it to quieten some of the grumbling. I can only guess as to the reasons why CCP wanted to reduce the use of battleships and battle cruisers to their current levels. But that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed by it, and wonder of the true benefit of it if any.

*Shrugs*
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#33 - 2015-03-10 15:28:01 UTC
Tier 3 battle cruisers and faction/T2 battle cruisers pretty much make battleships obsolete.

But we need to go dark on this or CCP will see these lamentations and nerf battle cruisers.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Joan Miles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-03-10 16:52:21 UTC
Bloody Slave wrote:
What are you talking about?

I can see BS in PvP everywhere doing huge dps, ganking miners, ganking freighters, used extensively in mercs fleets, roaming low and null on small gang fleets, everywhere...

Roll


I will find you and gank you in my shiny small gank BS. We are everywhere!

Wait.. what do you mean it's still 15jums away?
rhiload Feron-drake
TURN LEFT
HYDRA RELOADED
#35 - 2015-03-11 16:51:42 UTC
unfortunately its not 2012, rip bs o7
Black Drake
#36 - 2015-03-11 17:06:44 UTC
I'd rather use Oracle for POS bashing than a BS
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-03-11 17:42:24 UTC
PL has an arty-machariel doctrine, so BS's are in use in the null meta. But that is one sample, and one wonders if they are using ascendancies to counter gate-to-gate warp speed AIDS... :)

The short answer for me is that BS's simply suck to fly because of recent accel/decel/warp speed changes, and we shouldn't need ascendancies etc to counter baseline suck. All 'front line' ships in EvE should pass the 'fun to fly' smell test. For me that means centering the 3.0 AU sweet spot around faction-battleships, and re-factoring all other ship classes from there to maintain a delta.

Done. BS's (and BC's) are simply fun to fly again in a roaming gate-to-gate context (instead of a ballache), and you still have 'faster' tackle classes (and slower caps).



Would you like to know more?
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-03-11 21:50:53 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
PL has an arty-machariel doctrine, so BS's are in use in the null meta. But that is one sample, and one wonders if they are using ascendancies to counter gate-to-gate warp speed AIDS... :)

The short answer for me is that BS's simply suck to fly because of recent accel/decel/warp speed changes, and we shouldn't need ascendancies etc to counter baseline suck. All 'front line' ships in EvE should pass the 'fun to fly' smell test. For me that means centering the 3.0 AU sweet spot around faction-battleships, and re-factoring all other ship classes from there to maintain a delta.

Done. BS's (and BC's) are simply fun to fly again in a roaming gate-to-gate context (instead of a ballache), and you still have 'faster' tackle classes (and slower caps).





PL seems to like their TFI doctrine too, from what I've seen.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#39 - 2015-03-11 21:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
I don't think the warp speed changes are the problem. It's the lack of benefit you get for the slower warp speed when compared to a T3 cruiser or HAC, with a dose of bomber vulnerability on top.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-03-11 22:18:39 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
You had a dev blog that showed "Battleships are being used" in pvp damage. Can we get that graph without damage done to structures please?


Thanks


to help this is in reference to your Feb 27th, 2015 dev blog
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/balance-changes-coming-in-scylla/?_ga=1.64124652.275548287.1420932288

CCP bends and forms their data to their liking or to their intentions, they have no f'en clue on whats going on.
Props to you for bring up the topic.
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