Player Features and Ideas Discussion

In nullsec the cyno - cause a single Stealth bomber is'nt a huge issue for the most Ships... so yes - it most cases there is a gank resulting from a cloaked ship - cause in most cases he's there for a reason. If its not a cyno then it could be also a warpin for a fleet...

The Intelligence - well yeah if i would have something to counter ... sure i would use that - cause it would improve the tactical situation of my fleet...

if i can't see him - and i dont know what he's doing etc - then i dont can defend me... and he knows that - he can catch me - if'm in a Situation where i dont expect a fight. I dont talk about something which i click and he gets automaticly blown up - this would need activity too - and teamwork no worries.

If i would be more comfortable if someone is burning in a 6k Ceptor away from one spot ? Sure - cause we would catch him... also we zactly can see then what he's doing.

I dont know why we still discuss here - even things like removing cynos at all or removing blops... thats going to be ridiculos.

The ECM Impulse would solve it - it would add again a new Tactic with new options to PVP - it would open up a whole new PVP Profession. As i said already a couple times - just depending on your skills up to 1 au - so to find a cloaked guy in a huge System would'nt be easy - but it would give the "defender" an option.

Especially with the new Sov System (if it comes through like proposed) this needs to be implemented to keep it balanced for both sides.

Because you assumed I did not get the second part. No local means no more AFK cloaking. That is fairly obvious.

As for the rest, that is slightly different discussion. Maybe you should go back to the first post by the ISD guy in this thread and look at his first edit to learn about my past participation in this discussion....

Then what is the problem? Remove the free intel of local and the above will continue to be true. You will NEVER EVER lose anything to an AFK camper.

I can see how the PVP group would love local to be removed. It makes life a lot easier for them. Would it remove AFK camping? More than likely. It would just replace it with active camping of every ice system in null.

Though local does provide intel, it is only as good as the pilots that use it. The alliance intel channels do far more work than local itself.

You know since Fozzie made his statement, I have been thinking. I would have to say that he is completely wrong about his take on AFK camping. He quick statement touched on low DPS of the cloak ship, illusions to local removal by comparing it to WH space, and effecting ISK making in null.

I mean lets be honest. No one has lost isk cause of a camper. They are an annoyance, but if you let them effect your isk..... really should just move one system over. DPS of the cloak ship also has no real bearing and the last dozen posts reflect that cause they real problem is hotdropping. So that leaves local. Even local isnt the problem people make it. Local extends 1 system. Intel channels extend the entire universe of Eve.

It is what it is. CCP will change the game as they see fit.

The fact you believe this, shows you're still not getting it.

Why? Well it's simple, he won't show up in local and neither will anyone else, if the changes are like WH space.
So just how often will someone login, run site to site, then hotdrop into a system they have no idea of how many enemies are actually in?

So rather than it being omnipotent, it becomes a far riskier business. Then they have to rely upon spying and other forms of information, to create chances. So no, it will not be AFK camping. But then you consider logged off players are AFK camping, what a fine example of logic that is.

Have you heard of stations/outposts? Oh and those pesky ships that are immune to D-scan?

Yea, it would most surely be OP and easy.

yeah because all those 4 dscan immune ships are gone be such a big problem.
the hell do those have to do with anything?

so they dont show up on dscan its not like i would have had much of an opportunity to
hotdrop em when they did either.

they are not hotdropper targets anyway
they are not ships viable for pve either
they do not matter in this.

afk camping works because of local yes, take away local they will still be caping exept now it will cost those who use they system

being logged in wont have the same effect your right, my point is those camper will now become supereffective hotdroppers.

Adding modules/items to the game just makes things more convoluted. The only way to "fix" cloaking is to add counterplay using mechanic that already exist within the game.

Why are cloaky campers a threat? Is it because their ship type is unknown? they could bring in friends with a cyno? you don't know if they're actually there? they're gathering intel?

I think you'll find most are afraid of a cloaky camper because of that they could bring, not because of what they're actually in. And rightfully so, a person can sit in a system for days/weeks at a time to lul the inhabitants into a sense of security then light a cyno and suddenly +20 in local.

The only "solution" if you can call it that would be to treat the cloak, cyno, upcoming entosis link like the newer hyperspacial modules. That is, only x number of them can be fit to a ship at any given time. In this case 1. And keep in mind even saying that, they can always drop a mobile depot and refit.

People would likely say that makes covert ships worthless and to them I'd say no... the combat recon just got an amazing buff that removes it from dscan. THAT is your new hotdrop ship choice. Covert frigates still work for probing and scouting (gathering intel) but are very fragile. Covert recons can accomplish the same, but bring some very nice defensive bonuses and are not entirely defenseless. Both of which can fit covert cloaks which render then almost entirely immune when navigating null security space.

Attaching cynos to combat recons accomplishes a few things.
First of which, it gives this class of ships a purpose! On top of this it introduces counterplay that does not just include sitting in station and not giving a fight to bore them away.
A player can now throw combat probes and with a quick scan can check if they can see a recon on scan. If they do, they can expect a cyno hotdrop. If they do not, then they will know this player does not have a cyno, and can prepare for that player's friends to pay them a visit if they continue their activities.


Either way increasing the chances of good fights because people will still be careless and get caught, and now if the cyno is careless now he can die as well. Or if it's a scout, the system inhabitants can now prepare for the incoming gang to get a good fight out of it.



So.. all that said, people are risk adverse in this game. And a neutral in local is likely going to result in people safing up no matter what is done. Only those who are willing to risk their assets will actually get anything out of a change like this. And I think you'd find even those cloaky campers would avoid a system if they thought the inhabitants were actually willing to fight back. They are just like the rest of EVE in that most will only take a fight when the odds are 99% in their favor.

Well said Nasar!

...and i might add we're currently nullsec hostiles, yet we can see eye to eye.