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How much is pvp skill and how much of it is SP?

Author
Syrilian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-03-09 17:02:38 UTC
First, this is a serious question. This isn't complaining about the combat mechanics of this game. I have just started getting into PVP through FW and I as expected, I currently suck. I have read a bunch of things online about fits, tips etc about how to get better at it and I have noticed that alot of it depends on SP.

So how much of PVP is SP and how much of it is skill?
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#2 - 2015-03-09 17:06:04 UTC
SP determines a threshold that limits your ability to engage in the first place, but once you have crossed that threshold, player skill becomes far more important than exact skill levels.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3 - 2015-03-09 17:14:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
SP gets you choice and access to different modules, nothing more. Your personal skills will far outweigh it as you learn what the ships can and can't do, how to make the most of them and get familiar with game mechanics.

A new or low SP character in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing is far more dangerous than their age or SP would suggest.

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2015-03-09 17:26:20 UTC
Player skill > skill points.

I'm a logi 5 pilot but I'm as thick as two short planks nailed together with regards actually using a logistics ship,
I just don't have the experience with it.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#5 - 2015-03-09 17:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
"The Skillpoint System and You"

The long and short of it...

- as a newbie with limited skillpoints you will have trouble effectively engaging targets... ESPECIALLY if you are running solo.

- as part of a group your lacking skillpoints are somewhat compensated for (# of warm bodies > # of personal skillpoints)

- with more experience under your belt, you will eventually figure out how to pick and choose targets you can win against... what weapons and tactics are effective against what kinds of weapons and tactics (this takes time and first hand encounters though).

- once you start to "perfect" a certain specialty fights will become seemingly easier or more predictable.

- even when you have a respectable amount of skillpoints under your belt there will be times where you lose to a month old nub... because his/her ship was specifically fit to counter yours (don't ask me how it happens... it happens... like some phantom ghost was relaying intel to that nub from behind you).
Paranoid Loyd
#6 - 2015-03-09 17:30:54 UTC
Yeah, of the engagements I can see on your KB, you did not choose targets you would have any chance of defeating unless they were equally clueless. (No offense intended, from you posts you are learning relatively quickly)

What you can and can't fight in the ship you have chosen plays a very large part in being successful.

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Orlacc
#7 - 2015-03-09 17:41:34 UTC
And then there is "experience."

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Memphis Baas
#8 - 2015-03-09 18:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Skills do unlock ships and gear for you, so not having the skills can limit you. But once you get your support skills, and ship and weapon skills up to where the Certificates for the ship that you fly show you're at rank 4, adding more skillpoints will probably not do much for that ship.

Past that point, more skills mean you unlock more ships as choices for you to fly, but basically the skillpoints that apply to all the ships you've left in the hangar are useless for the ship you're flying.

Otherwise, PVP is a lot of experience and skill. At the most newbie level, you print out a ship chart so that you can instantly recognized what an Arazu can do vs. what a Bhaalghorn can do to you. At the more advanced level, you have a feel for not just individual ships, but fleets composed of a set of ships, and you don't need that ship chart anymore. There's a big difference between reading off a chart and having died to those ships and thus having a feel for what they do.

There's more. Awareness of where you are in space, where you can go, and where the enemies can come from, how to scout for them, how to bluff to pull them into your trap or how to escape them, and quite a bit of psychology on how to act in order to control their reactions and your team's morale.
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-03-09 18:30:36 UTC
Both.. sort off.
More SP gives you more options (ships, modules) on how to engage a target, but you still need to make the right choices.
A high SP char will still die to a low SP char if he picked a fight with the wrong ship/fitting.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-03-09 18:50:02 UTC
The correct question is how much is blob and how much is sp. The rest is reaction speed and experience gained playing.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-03-09 18:55:56 UTC
Player skill and experience >>> SP.

An all 5 fit will still lose against an avg skilled ship that it should never engage.

SP just gives you more options to chose from.

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Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-03-09 21:20:50 UTC
It's been answered well already. Here's the wonderful part - if you keep at it, you'll gain experience and SP at the same time. So you'll get better twice as fast! Big smile

Having experienced players to show you the ropes is the best way to get that experience because they can easily point out where you went wrong and how to improve, whereas it might take you 20 more engagements to figure that out on your own.

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Sansh Leko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-03-09 21:35:11 UTC
As an exampe my "pvp learning" charachter have 15mil SP in core, drones and Amaar ships up to T1 Cruisers.

I engaged Cruor in Novice plex with my Executioner, when I realized what I did I was allready drained completely.


So yea, knowledge of what fights to pick, how to etc is more important than huge skill number under your belt if you dont know how to implement that in real engagement.



On a side note, one part of me yoloed that Cruor because I wanted to feel the taste of death.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-03-10 01:35:44 UTC
Sansh Leko wrote:
...because I wanted to feel the taste of death.

Like chicken.

Grrr.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#15 - 2015-03-10 02:03:52 UTC
Almost all of PVP is knowing why you're going to win before the actual fighting happens.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#16 - 2015-03-10 02:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
In my experience, 80% of fights are not close. They are decided before anyone engages. Note that tactics player skill can impact how bad a loss is. As an example, I FC'ed a corp op where three of us attacked a war target's Player Owned Starbase in a quiet highsec island. Upon seeing five hostile players in local (in the system we were in and the adjacent system) I made the call to flee. We lost the fight (the defenders' POS remained intact at 75% shields), but we didn't lose any ships.

The other 20% of fights are decided by a combination of skillpoints, in combat tactical decisions (do I shoot their drones, do we primary their tackle or their damage, etc) and the amount of ISK you field (do you use tech 2 modules, or expensive deadspace ones; do you use tech 1 hulls or expensive tech 2/3 or faction ones).


Also in my experience, the most fun fights are the ones in that 20% that you narrowly lose.

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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#17 - 2015-03-10 04:24:54 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
SP gets you choice and access to different modules, nothing more......


I completely disagree.

Higher levels of Navigation skills will increase your speed, agility and the ability to run your AB/MWD for longer. Higher levels of Gunnery Skills will affect falloff, optimal, damage and tracking. Higher levels of Drones skills increase damage, speed of the drone and it's hitpoint. Armour & Shield skills increase raw hitpoints and resistances. Engineering skills increase capacitor, cap recharge and a host of other benefits. Higher levels of Thermodynamics allow you to overheat for longer. Fitting skills mean less need for fitting mods or rigs, which means those slots can be filled with damage or tank instead, further increasing your chances.

Skills don't just affect which ships and modules you can USE, they have a huge effect on how well those modules PERFORM.

That said, yes, knowing how to manually pilot a ship and other similar 'player skill' can dig you out of a hole, but to suggest that player skill is the only thing that counts is, to be frank, utter bollocks.

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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#18 - 2015-03-10 04:54:24 UTC
The performance of ships and equipment isn't as important to achieving a favorable outcome as is selecting and making appropriate use of ships, equipment and tactics.

Blowing up spaceships is about being able to make an accurate determination about the capabilities of your opponent, determining if you legitimately have the capability to engage it successfully, and if not re-fitting, re-shipping or calling for backup as required.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#19 - 2015-03-10 05:07:25 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Player skill > skill points.

I'm a logi 5 pilot but I'm as thick as two short planks nailed together with regards actually using a logistics ship,
I just don't have the experience with it.


pew pew all the purples, try and pew the ones with the least HP first. its like the opposite of final blow sniping. P

and don't get caught by reds

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Lachesiss
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-03-10 08:51:55 UTC
I had an alt that had 1.5 mill sp and I scared the crap out of a 400 man alliance.

As noted alot of it is down to knowledge and the alt was being flown by an owner who has played for some years. However. Some users are just damm good at it from the start.

Learn your limits and your capabilities.

On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.

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