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How to fix the Battleship problem! and changing Faction Battleships

Author
DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-03-09 18:42:23 UTC  |  Edited by: DHB WildCat
I have an idea to fix our problem with why Battleships ******* suck!

The biggest issue that battleships have (they have numerous, but this is just about the biggest) is the inability to apply DPS to smaller targets. Turrets have a hard time tracking, and missiles (again battleship sized weapons) just dont apply because of sig radius or speed.

So how do we fix the problem without breaking the game? With one mod! Webs......



My solution is to give all battleships 90% webs. Just like the old days. Now this will step on the toes of a few ships but Ill get to that in a second.


Now dont all get, omg this would wtfpwn everything. Remember that I only purpose changes to the webs. Which means that the Battleships will still be slower than your ishtar but if you make a mistake and get tackled, then the larger ship with larger guns will eat you alive. Which is how it should be.


So you are giving all Battleships a 90% web..... What about the Vindi?
Good question.

We need to overhaul the pirate ships. Lets take a look

Machariel -
(current bonuses) - lots of turret bonuses (range, ROF, and damage) / Warp speed and acceleration.
(new bonuses) - Keeping Warp Speed and acceleration. This bonus is awesome for roamers and should not be taken away from them. Now we will keep the range and damage bonuses for both minmatar and gallente bonuses however move the 5% damage from 5% to 7.5% ......

because.......

The new addition though is to lose 25% role bonus to ROF, and add 25% speed bonus. I want this ship to be the super fast, roaming Battleship. A skirmisher, hit and run guerilla tactics.




Rattlesnake -
(current bonuses) - 10% kinetic and thermal missile damage, 4% shield resists, and 275% to drone HP and damage.
(new bonuses) - with this already being a unique ship the drone bonus and shield resist are great. I propose changing the stupid thermal and kinetic missile damage bonus to cruise / torp / RHML damage. This way you are not confined to two damage types, but now you also cant **** frigs with rlml.

second role bonus (since why do some pirate ships get 2 role bonuses and others only one?)

15% Jammer strength. We all know guristas are jamming buggers. This bonus makes the ship even more unique, but doesnt step on the toes of other jammers. It doesnt get the range bonus the scorp gets, but also doesnt get the higher strength bonuses of the widow or chameleon or recons. So just being a jamming platform would be a bad play for this ship. But the tolkien jammer or two could very much help it or a small gang.





Bhaalgorn -
I like this ship, it is very much in line however. One thing I would change.
(current bonuses) - 15% neut and nos drain amount, 20% web range, (role bonuses) 100% energy damage, noses nos cap even when ships capacitor is lower than your own.
(new bonuses) - Change neut and nos from 15% to 25% and make it nos only. Make this ship unique. Nos only boat. All other bonuses the same.




Nightmare - broken
(current bonuses) - 7.5% bonus to tracking, 30% AB speed, (role bonus) - 150% damage.
(new bonuses) - keep tracking and AB, but change AB bonus from 30% to 40% and you'll see why in a second.... AB is very unique and welcomed.

(role bonuses) - keep 150% damage...... ADD 4% armor resists. No Pirate faction ship has this bonus, but also change slot layout from 7 mids to 5, and change the lows from 6 to 8. Making this ship an armor tanking ship. Now giving you options of nanoing lows and AB'ing like a T3, or providing support in fleets with long range tracking guns and armor resist bonus.




Vindicator - now for the poor beast that gets hit because he no longer has 90% web bonus the normal BS's have.
(current bonuses) - 7.5% tracking, 10% web effectiveness. (role bonus) 37.5% damage
(new bonuses) - keep 7.5% tracking. Add 5% ROF for the loss of the 10% web.

(role bonuses) - keep 37.5% Damage, add 25% remote sensor damp effectiveness. We all now serpentis damp. This bonus is not as strong as the celestis, maulus, keres, or recons. and most of those get a range bonus as well.

But wait Im not done yet. I want this ship to be feared! If you get caught you melt! So we are making this ship a shield tanker. Changing the slot layout from 5 mids to 7. And 7 lows to 5. Making this ship able to shield tank and support with damps, or tackle shield tank with massive damage, or fully support with damps armor tanking 5 slot with moderate damage. Gives you many more options.



Barghest - what a wierd ship! Lets make some changes eh? We are gonna change it to a Rapid missile platform.
(current bonuses) - 10% scram and disruptor range, 5% missile damage (role bonuses) - 200% missile velocity, 50% PENALTY to flight time.
(new bonuses) - Keep 10% scram and disruptor range. Keep 5% missile damage.

now for the changes -

(role bonuses) - lose both we already have........ ADD 50% reload speed on Rapid Missiles (both light and heavy), ADD 100% bonus to scan resolution.

Making this ship an anti support platform. But now since the missiles dont go insanely fast, non tackled frigs can possibly outrun the missiles. However if you are in range, you will recieve some pain. Not enough DPS to own BC's and above, and not fast enough to wtfpwn cruisers and below. But a very new unique bonused missile platform.




Nestor -
I believe the nestor is unique and in a good place already..... honestly I would probably go ahead and make the range bonus on the rr to 250% from 200%. Its super slow, the extra range could help.
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#2 - 2015-03-09 18:57:31 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
But wait Im not done yet. I want this ship to be feared! If you get caught you melt! So we are making this ship a shield tanker. Changing the slot layout from 5 mids to 7. And 7 lows to 5. Making this ship able to shield tank and support with damps, or tackle shield tank with massive damage, or fully support with damps armor tanking 5 slot with moderate damage. Gives you many more options.


-1

Hate it

Vindi should be armor
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-03-09 18:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Eeehhhhh....no.

Edit: To everything.
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-03-09 19:00:08 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:

The biggest issue that battleships have (they have numerous, but this is just about the biggest) is the inability to apply DPS to smaller targets. Turrets have a hard time tracking, and missiles (again battleship sized weapons) just dont apply because of sig radius or speed.


Thats the point

Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#5 - 2015-03-09 19:00:26 UTC
+1 for Battleship roams

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-03-09 19:06:05 UTC
oohthey ioh wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:

The biggest issue that battleships have (they have numerous, but this is just about the biggest) is the inability to apply DPS to smaller targets. Turrets have a hard time tracking, and missiles (again battleship sized weapons) just dont apply because of sig radius or speed.


Thats the point




A ships that costs less, and takes less skill points to fly should not be a better option than one that costs more and takes more skillpoints to fly.

Battleships need to be more powerful again. A gang of 20 Battleships should be able to kill a gang of 20 cruisers. However in todays game that is not the case. This needs to be fixed!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#7 - 2015-03-09 19:07:12 UTC
yeah lets break everything shall we Roll

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-03-09 19:10:04 UTC
Who tells you that bs suck the only thing is they are slow but i loke them how they are. I see no need to buff them.

-1
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-03-09 19:13:03 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:


Nestor -
I believe the nestor is unique and in a good place already.


For a second I actually thought this was a legitimate post, until I saw this.
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-03-09 19:16:06 UTC
Sorry, but this isn't the way to make battleships more appealing.

Baltec's a little late btw, I wonder where he's off to.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-03-09 19:16:57 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Why would Ishtars ever get within web range of anything?Roll

They easily apply dps outside even Hugin/Rapier web range.
Luna Arindale
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#12 - 2015-03-09 19:27:12 UTC
Wut...
Pinky TheBrain
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-03-09 19:47:35 UTC
Man dont fret about all the negative feedback. Most people are afraid of the battleships if they can catch you.

Battleships need help but I dont know how to do it. So I am glad people like you fight for them. Maybe someday CCP will bring them to power. Like you say 5 cruisers shouldnt be able to kill 5 Battleships.

Also I like the new Barg, rapid missile bonus is fun looking.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#14 - 2015-03-09 19:48:24 UTC
tldr;

- make all pirate battleships shield tankers.

- give all battleships 90% webs so they don't have a weakness against anything at close range.


Not supported.
Battleships are supposed to be weak against smaller ships. Hell... a lone carrier or dreadnought can be perma-tackled by a single frigate with few abilities to fight back... much less escape.
That said... all large ships do have one thing in their favor; if working together with other "large" ships they can literally become a deathball (even to smaller ships). Their only pitfall is that they is SLOOOOOWWWW... meaning that everything can run away from them and/or has enough time to come up with an appropriate counter.
In a sense... the larger a ship is the more it relies on other ships to increase its effectiveness.
Memphis Baas
#15 - 2015-03-09 19:49:56 UTC
I disagree that "can't hit smaller ships" is the biggest issue.

Mobility is the biggest issue.

CCP have a recent blog where they show that battleships ARE being used (scroll down to the chart of ships used), but the community sentiment is that "there are more nimble ships that can apply the same DPS with the same tank as battleships, so why use battleships"?

I'd be ok with making them more mobile, so that players who want to use HACs and T3's can do so, and players who want to use battleships instead (cheaper, easier to fit) can achieve similar DPS and tank and similar fleet roaming mobility.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2015-03-09 19:53:36 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
CCP have a recent blog where they show that battleships ARE being used (scroll down to the chart of ships used), but the community sentiment is that "there are more nimble ships that can apply the same DPS with the same tank as battleships, so why use battleships"?

Yes, battleships are being used in fleets and structure grinds. Let's remove those two components from the equation and see the raw data.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-03-09 20:01:06 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
I disagree that "can't hit smaller ships" is the biggest issue.

Mobility is the biggest issue.

CCP have a recent blog where they show that battleships ARE being used (scroll down to the chart of ships used)



I call Bullshit.... how much of that "PVP Damage" is against structures that cause killmails and thus pvp damage. Statistics can be made to say anything!
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2015-03-09 20:15:50 UTC
bs would be still useless above web range... thats is 10-15km...

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#19 - 2015-03-09 20:16:57 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
I call Bullshit.... how much of that "PVP Damage" is against structures that cause killmails and thus pvp damage. Statistics can be made to say anything!

I believe the quote you're looking for is this: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-03-09 20:17:42 UTC
Garnoo wrote:
bs would be still useless above web range... thats is 10-15km...



Battleships are slow brawlers, meant to be in close. So yes you are right all other faster ships would be better at range. Which is how it should be
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