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Why so Split on Supers?

First post
Author
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#41 - 2015-03-08 20:11:44 UTC
Getting into a supercarrier was one of my goals in EVE and in a few months I would have been ready. Cry
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#42 - 2015-03-08 20:27:43 UTC
Grytok wrote:
Back in 2006 when I started playing this game I allready said that titans and mothers should be big fat support-vessels instead of doomsday-machines.

Allthough I've over 140 mil SP on this character, I've not trained a single capital ship skill. I can fly a dread and carrier with an alt tho, but I was never interested in training for supers, allthough I could easily afford to buy one and loose it the next day.

So yeah, I fully endorse the plan of reducing supers to big fat fleetsupport vessels. Dreads and carriers should be used to blow things up alongside these supporting behemoths.



Ofc you Fully Endorse it you said so yourself you don't fly them...

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
#43 - 2015-03-08 22:25:37 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
Grytok wrote:
Back in 2006 when I started playing this game I allready said that titans and mothers should be big fat support-vessels instead of doomsday-machines.

Allthough I've over 140 mil SP on this character, I've not trained a single capital ship skill. I can fly a dread and carrier with an alt tho, but I was never interested in training for supers, allthough I could easily afford to buy one and loose it the next day.

So yeah, I fully endorse the plan of reducing supers to big fat fleetsupport vessels. Dreads and carriers should be used to blow things up alongside these supporting behemoths.



Ofc you Fully Endorse it you said so yourself you don't fly them...


Yeah, but by choice and not by inability.
Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
#44 - 2015-03-08 22:26:34 UTC
Grytok wrote:
Alice Saki wrote:
Grytok wrote:
Back in 2006 when I started playing this game I allready said that titans and mothers should be big fat support-vessels instead of doomsday-machines.

Allthough I've over 140 mil SP on this character, I've not trained a single capital ship skill. I can fly a dread and carrier with an alt tho, but I was never interested in training for supers, allthough I could easily afford to buy one and loose it the next day.

So yeah, I fully endorse the plan of reducing supers to big fat fleetsupport vessels. Dreads and carriers should be used to blow things up alongside these supporting behemoths.



Ofc you Fully Endorse it you said so yourself you don't fly them...


Yeah, but by choice and personal preference, not by inability.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#45 - 2015-03-08 22:59:48 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Getting into a supercarrier was one of my goals in EVE and in a few months I would have been ready. Cry

Quick, it's time to end some 0.0 dreams

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lienzo
Amanuensis
#46 - 2015-03-09 01:05:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lienzo
I guess nerfing them is just easier than coming up with a hard counter.

There are a zillion other things CCP could do. For example, change the build reqs of all caps and modules and ammo used by caps to require moon minerals as a kind of Tech C. Or add an effect to doomsdays which prevents remote repping a target. Or putting out sov content that has varying levels of defense, some of which is accessible to small gangs sometimes, and others which allow capitals to engage directly, or areas where smaller gangs have to prep zones for caps to get involved. Perhaps they could simply rank the size of HP walls by sov level, requiring only that elevated levels of sov be surrounded by one level lower sov, ensuring that every empire would have a vulnerable periphery that must be defended.

Whether supercaps have a role in the environment is a slightly different question than whether they have a role in the ship ecology. Among subcaps, you used to have a mushy sort of circle of predation, where frigs were vulnerable to cruisers, and cruisers were vulnerable to BS, and BS were vulnerable to frigs. That hasn't really been the case for many years, but it's intuitive.

You could parallel that easily enough by having BS be vulnerable to caps, caps vulnerable to supers, and supers be vulnerable to battleships. However, there are modules all over the place that make that messy, like webifiers, target painters, and remote repairers, especially in ways that scale.

In the long ago days before the circle of predation changes, bigger ships were always better, with armageddons have no lock time and no stacking penalty for damage modules. It would stand to reason that CCP is riven with its own factions, and the vision has changed as leaders and talent have come and gone.

RR capfleets may be broken today, and they may be mothballed by summer, but eventually CCP will get around to either doing something else with them, or coming up withing something else entire. We don't have any control over that, only how we react. Abandon null and things will change faster. Abandon alliances, and the leaders of new and surviving alliances will adapt to changing desires from their members. Periods of change are opportunities to create new paths for yourself.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#47 - 2015-03-09 01:31:33 UTC
Here is the issue with super capitals - In order to procure them for yourself you do not just need massive amount of assets, but also a large amount of time and null sec owner ship. You will attempt to make your own super fleet to compete with current blocs and have all of your supers prematurely aborted and executed.

Then when Supers perform in combat - they do siege dreadnought dps on paper (correct me if I am wrong), have massive EHP, (HAD) large projection as well as remote reps ontop of E-War immunity.

Combine these factors with the current sovereignty system and it allows people to monopolize regions that aren't used. Combat wise it is basically a question of who has more super caps.

As someone who doesn't use them and is an outside observer (As such my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt) I would like to see their ehp softly nerfed. Their DPS greatly cut and their utility vastly increased. This way they will still have power, but diminishing returns will take effect after a certain point.

Basically - reduce their brute force application and make them more niche towards a support role. So they can vastly change the fight. But a blob of them does not dictate who wins and who doesn't.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#48 - 2015-03-09 01:36:24 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing?

Supers exist outside of the regular rock-paper-scissors design of ship classes, which makes them a bit awkward, if not outright bad design.

A certain EVE celebrity has written an interesting piece on balancing supers: http://www.themittani.com/features/james-315-how-fix-supercaps
Wrong link? I didn't find any celebrities. P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#49 - 2015-03-09 02:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Unezka Turigahl
Scatim Helicon wrote:

Supercapitals were introduced to the game with a design brief of "hurrr make them KEWL and AWESUM!" rather than anything that actually makes sense within the game and nobody at CCP has the slightest clue how to put this right.


Supercapitals, the original WiS. Lol

Felicity Love wrote:

It's more than just "jealousy", it's an epidemic of impatience.

The new generation of instant gratification kids have attention spans of a goldfish, and don't want to wait a year of training. In other games, they can power level their way to the top in days. If they can't jump in at the top of the game, or buy their way in, they ***** "it's not fair".

Basically, they are a waste of oxygen.


Heh. Top of the game? There shouldn't be a top of the game in EVE. This isn't like other MMOs where we constantly have new levels and gear to obtain and discard the old stuff. The fact is the main purpose of the skill system in this game is to keep people subscribed and provide a "ding" every now and then.

Wait a year to unlock an item in the game? That actually sounds terrible. Absolutely terrible. Best way to spin it is it's a reward for loyal customers. Worst way to spin it is it's a way to keep people paying. Spending a year honing your actual skills at playing a game is something to be proud of I guess. Or sad about, there's probably better things out there to master than a video game. But waiting a year/paying CCP for a year for the privilege to unlock an item in game... not exactly an accomplishment. No gratification to be had there. It's empty. You haven't actually done anything but wait until you're allowed to use the new toy.

- Player who could have trained for supers on multiple accounts but didn't, and probably never will, because they seem kinda lame, so no, I am totally not jelly.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2015-03-09 07:40:28 UTC
Titans, too... they already have specific boosts associated with them though.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#51 - 2015-03-09 16:04:28 UTC
I'm going to consolidate several threads on Supers currently active in GD in one thread. As such, as there already is a thread on the same topic, this one gets a lock.

The Rules:
17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss.
If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost.
Please keep discussion regarding a topic to a single thread.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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