EVE General Discussion

Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing?

Supers by themselves are fine. It is when you start having fleets of supers they become a problem. It also has to do with those that have them and those that don't. Those that have them don't want them getting nerfed because of all the time and effort they have spend getting them. Those that don't have supers see them as a kind of I win button. I can bring thousands of people into a fight but if you bring 100 supers. My thousands of people can't win.

I think CCP thought there was no real way to balance them, so they just F it and changed their role all together, since really balancing them would be....kind of impossible...or super difficult.

I own a Super, and I personally believe they are bad for the game (so that is your first theory torpedoed) - or more to the point, that the mechanics surrounding them are bad.

The problem is, they were never imagined to be fielded in numbers, and now people are able to field them in full fleets, the mechanics have broken down. Ultimately its the fault of the remote repair mechanics, not the ship in itself, they just have a big enough amount of hp that they are functionally invulnerable under reps (and since Supercarriers carry reps, they always will have them to hand) to everything other than more than itself (the very essence of the n+1 problem).

That said, you can't put the cork back in the bottle and just take them away, and any rebalance has got to take in to account the sheer number rattling around. I personally wouldn't care if they just removed them (I got mine to "compete" not because it was a personal goal, I would go back to Battleships and Battlecruisers without a murmur), but enough would that it is long past being an option.

Thiers nothing wrong with capitals/supers in of themselves they are only a symptom of unlimited resources which leads to the numbers we have now and the ease to stock pile and replace losses.

Bittervet here.

Supers have come to represent everything that is wrong with the structure of the game and the shortsightedness of the game's design. This has much to do with the blue donut and the stagnating of the game.

Infinite resources means supers supers supers. Even the world's superpowers have a limited number of carriers and battle groups. But infinite resources have provided simply more entrenched big dogs.

There have been numerous threads about the topic, so I won't go over everything. But for the most part the super is more of a symbol of a host of issues than a problem by itself.

The biggest enemies of supers are living in high sec.

They are bad for the game for a variety of reasons.
1) They can't really be balanced against the other ships.
2) Remote repair scalability means that they are nigh on invulnerable.
3) They never really had a purpose - they were really just giant epeen machines.

As long as there were only a few of them, it really wasn't a bad thing. It's when everyone and their brother started building them that they became a serious issue, largely because it meant that if you didn't have them, you couldn't compete anymore.

Well, you've got this ego stroking digital symbol of success, seniority and superiority (read: Linus's blanket) and you're just going to S N A T C H it away from the holder! Oh, but wait. You don't just YANK it. It gets heavier and heavier first, so heavy you want to put it down yourself, but the ego ride is strong so, you shift into self-justification overdrive in anticipation of what you surmise is ahead! THEN, when the truth becomes ominously apparent, you figure launching into a premature grief process will shake the digital deities sufficiently to keep your bleggy - hope against hope - but, it's an ego totem so it's not really hope. It's JUSTICE.

Soon, we'll see honest-to-God withdrawal from a collection of pixels (they always like to say just after they kill your ship). After all, it is only a GAME, RIGHT? "Never fly what you can't afford to lose." Was that it? Did I get that right?

#1 Caps/Supers used to be great, now they are too OP when someone fields hundreds of them (because hundreds of interceptors, T3 cruisers or BS aren't OP apparently...).

#2 They lack a clear role (unlike specialized ships which are... specialized). In this case, those ships are too powerful at 1 thing (especially when a bunch of those ships come together), and then suck really bad at other's... so people get 'stuck' with them, especially super's.

#3 A LOT of people are jealous they can't field them, or not field enough. Instead of working harder, it's better to ***** & moan about it so someone else does something about it (it's the mentality of the latest generation).

#4 A LOT of people also jump on the bandwagon (i.e: grrr goons, death to supers, etc), usually because of a he said/she said, or simply their pimp tengu got wtfpwned by half a dozen caps when they didn't use a scout to go roaming in someone's space.

#5 Those capital and supercapital ships are extremely skill intensive, even more now than before. Because of that, people feel cheated when they get nerfed. Personally, i would be interested in getting proper roles for my supers to be useful to my alliance/corp/myself, instead of this blind nerfing left/right with zero consideration from CCP to it's more senior members (try putting 10 years into a game, even on/off...).

Supercapitals were introduced to the game with a design brief of "hurrr make them KEWL and AWESUM!" rather than anything that actually makes sense within the game and nobody at CCP has the slightest clue how to put this right.