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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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A simple CAPITAL Idea post sov change =)
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Tiberon Darkstar
Dark Praetorian Order
#1 - 2015-03-04 18:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberon Darkstar
Alrighty, so my idea is: Give Carriers and Supercarriers the ability to use Clone Vat Bays (CVB).

In light of the new sov changes, I think the role of supers and capitals in general will change, rather than be mothballed like a lot of people are crying about. I think the new role will be squad/fleet support (Carrier, SC, and Titan) or capital search and destroy (Dread and Titan).

Having a Clone Vat Bay would help facilitate the new support role rather nicely with the proposed changes to sov mechanics. It will also give a target against which to conduct focused search and destroy sorties to help disable a coordinated attack.

Just in case anyone reading this doesn't know how the CVB's work, they essentially make your ship into a mobile cloning center that corp/alliance mates can clone to if they get podded. This has the effect of making the ship it is fitted to a forward operating base for a squad or fleet of other ships. Right now, they can only be fitted to Titans and Rorquals and AFAIK are not really used because Titans current role is full out attack and Rorquals are Industrial ships for supporting mining ops and compressing ore.

Edit: Seems that this is wrong. The CVB is tied into jump clone mechanics but isn't useful beyond that. So you can set a jump clone there and jump to it like any other jump clone, but you don't wake up at the ship if you get podded. For these modules to really be useful, and thus capital ships as FOB's, this needs to be changed so that they operate more like a station-based cloning facility. Thanks Anhenka!

After the proposed sov changes, the CVB mounted on carriers/SC's would be very useful for keeping an offensive supplied and coordinated because it will allow podded pilots to get back into the fight much sooner with fitted ships ready for use in the Ship Maintenance Bay, with a limited stock of other supplies in the Corp Hanger. And it will give a target for Dreads and Titans in defensive ops and maybe offensive ops if they are hunting a long way from home or defending an ally.

This one little change would do a lot to make sov warfare fun and engaging and have minimal development cost.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#2 - 2015-03-04 18:44:25 UTC
On defense there's really not much point in it, since you will have your clones staged in your PvP staging system.

On offense you will be staging out of the nearest dockable station with a med clone you can.

I suppose it could see some super limited use in situations where people

A: Don't have a convenient staging station.
B: Have a POS set up in a FoB where you want to be harassing someone.
C: Have your own carrier to store your stuff or trust your allies not to steal your stuff.

But since it's tied to the JC mechanic, you can only jump once every 19-24 hours, you can't have used it to jump anywhere recently, you will have had to preinstall the clone, and the person with your clone needs to be online and using the mod/ship, it's typically more convenient to just have everyone base their stuff out of a nearby Station.

That being said, +1, because jump clones should be easy to create for anyone. I just doubt it would see much use at all as a significant method of PvP movement.
Tiberon Darkstar
Dark Praetorian Order
#3 - 2015-03-04 19:38:46 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
On defense there's really not much point in it, since you will have your clones staged in your PvP staging system.

On offense you will be staging out of the nearest dockable station with a med clone you can.

I suppose it could see some super limited use in situations where people

A: Don't have a convenient staging station.
B: Have a POS set up in a FoB where you want to be harassing someone.
C: Have your own carrier to store your stuff or trust your allies not to steal your stuff.

But since it's tied to the JC mechanic, you can only jump once every 19-24 hours, you can't have used it to jump anywhere recently, you will have had to preinstall the clone, and the person with your clone needs to be online and using the mod/ship, it's typically more convenient to just have everyone base their stuff out of a nearby Station.

That being said, +1, because jump clones should be easy to create for anyone. I just doubt it would see much use at all as a significant method of PvP movement.


Yeah, it's been a long time since I was really active in nullsec and I forget how many stations there are out there now.

I have the functionality of the module wrong though. For some reason, I was thinking that once you JC'd to the clone vat bay, that you would wake up there if you were podded, instead of at a station much further away. The description of the module in EvEMon makes it sound like it works that way. I'll add that change in functionality to my initial proposal.

The use-case I was thinking of for this was as a single or small group of carriers operating in hostile constellations. I figured the stations there wouldn't be available and you couldn't anchor a POS there without tripping the alarm telling them exactly where you were staging. Having the ability to clone only a few jumps from where you were podded would help the attack but only as long as supplies held out.

Defensively, yeah, I can see that this would be less useful, but if your alliance had a significant portion of their people hell-camped into a station, the option to clone jump to a capital might be useful. Sure, inties, but you'd have an option to jump to where they weren't watching you but still close, giving you a chance to mount an attack.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-03-07 00:00:22 UTC
I could see this just being used to commencement the death cloning nerf

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Shey Nabali
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-03-07 00:09:49 UTC
I mean, clone vat bays aren't that important strategically, and offer no tactical advantages.

As a super pilot, the convenience of not needing to harass a titan bro to make me a jump clone would be cool. But that might just be me being selfish.

I'm kinda reluctant to say carriers/dreads should get them, simply because the ability to make and move clones is something that I like being reserved as a "perk" of owning a super capital. Rorqs get a pass simply because they're not, strictly speaking, combat ships. They're also pretty much worthless right now, except for giving mining links.
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#6 - 2015-03-07 00:37:16 UTC
Perhaps cloning could be a station service that can be disabled.

I always thought it was weird that vats weren't a POS module.

Strange, does anyone else hear that? It's almost like I can hear this dull roar of objections.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-03-07 00:50:45 UTC
Lienzo wrote:
I always thought it was weird that vats weren't a POS module.

Strange, does anyone else hear that? It's almost like I can hear this dull roar of objections.




It is its called a Rorq

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Tiberon Darkstar
Dark Praetorian Order
#8 - 2015-03-07 23:38:06 UTC
Shey Nabali wrote:
I mean, clone vat bays aren't that important strategically, and offer no tactical advantages.

As a super pilot, the convenience of not needing to harass a titan bro to make me a jump clone would be cool. But that might just be me being selfish.

I'm kinda reluctant to say carriers/dreads should get them, simply because the ability to make and move clones is something that I like being reserved as a "perk" of owning a super capital. Rorqs get a pass simply because they're not, strictly speaking, combat ships. They're also pretty much worthless right now, except for giving mining links.


Well, that's the thing, what I'm proposing is to give some strategic and tactical importance to clone vat bays so that capital ships have a reason be used under the new sov system.

I think it would be a huge tactical advantage to have a clone vat bay, and spare ships ready to use in the area as an attacker if it were changed so that you'd wake up at the capital ship after being podded. You would be much more able to sustain an attack over an area than if you woke up at your staging system and had to travel all the way back to the battle.

About the 'perk". I would think that the perk of owning a super is to own the super, one of the most powerful ships available in the game. Plus, you'd feel pretty good if you were the lynch-pin of an invasion of a constellation. Supers have been used as a primary weapon for so long that people forget that they were originally intended to be fleet support, my idea only enables that aspect of them.
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-03-07 23:43:47 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Lienzo wrote:
I always thought it was weird that vats weren't a POS module.

Strange, does anyone else hear that? It's almost like I can hear this dull roar of objections.




It is its called a Rorq


This^^
The Rorq is basically a POS module with a jump drive.
Tiberon Darkstar
Dark Praetorian Order
#10 - 2015-03-07 23:46:07 UTC
The roles of capitals as I see them in the new sov system (with my idea) would be:


  • Carriers: Support small gang of 5-10 pilots attacking a system with cloning and backup frigs/dessies. Would be able to provide triage support if desired. Would have to be vigilant about being probed out while supporting fleet mates.
  • Supercarriers: Support medium gang of 20-30 pilots attacking a system or constellation with cloning and backup ships, being able to hold a good amount of frigs/dessies/cruisers. Added benefits over a carrier are the same as they are now: Firepower for anti-capital work or defense, ECM immunity for GTFO factor, and raw HP for survivability.
  • Dreads: Drop 'em on unsuspecting capitals when you find them and lock them down. Cheaper alternative to Titans. Cloning on these would be silly and I never suggested that =P
  • Titans: Support larger gangs (30-50 pilots) attacking multiple constellations or a region with cloning, jump bridges, a horde of backup ships, and fleet boosts. Keeps doomsday weapon for anti-capital work.


The way we fight with capital ships is going to change. It's not going to be giant blobs of capitals anymore unless it results from fleets escalating against each other. Having the ability to clone fleet mates at the ship would help enable all sort of emergent gameplay.