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Caldari ships..
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Cheiftan
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#21 - 2011-12-22 21:16:06 UTC
Lissa Winters wrote:

You don't include falloff in range?


Not sure if serious?
Lissa Winters
Sorel Labs
#22 - 2011-12-22 21:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lissa Winters
I haven't indicated PvP anywhere in my posts, actually, except that I was worried about suicide gankers if I was in the habit of posting fits, due more to paranoia than anything else. Is Rokh really a top choice in PvP? You seemed to suggest the Abaddon had it totally outclassed and outgunned, so I assume no?
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-12-22 21:19:35 UTC
Ah, ok then, so if this isn't about PVP then the entire point is moot as weapons aren't balanced around PVE.
(And FYI: the Rokh outperforms the Abaddon vs some rats, and vice versa.)
Lissa Winters
Sorel Labs
#24 - 2011-12-22 21:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lissa Winters
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
The entire point is moot as weapons aren't balanced around PVE.


Why not? I think I was complaining that range is objectively less useful than damage when a weapon inherently has sufficent range to begin with. Show me where i've subdivided into a single aspect of the game?

The Rokh and the Raven are both typically used for long range damage. Wheres Caldari's medium range damage that is competitive?

Rails are Long.
Missiles are Long.
Blasters are extremely short, and not really Caldari weapons.

Every race gets a torpedo boat. (SB)

There's a big hole when it comes to killing, rather than sniping.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-12-22 21:33:38 UTC
Quote:
Why not? I think I was complaining that range is objectively less useful than damage when a weapon inherently has sufficent range to begin with. Show me where i've subdivided into a single aspect of the game?


At the point where you hinted that your Abaddon was suicide-gank worthy and perma-tanks - which means you were using a PVE ship for comparison. Thus: fail.

Quote:
The Rokh and the Raven are both typically used for long range damage. Wheres Caldari's short-medium range damage that is competitive?

Blaster rokh or Javelin ammo Rokh, as I explained to you in one of my very first posts. And by the way, the Raven can fit these things called torpedoes, you may want to look them up.
Lili Lu
#26 - 2011-12-22 22:13:43 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Lissa Winters wrote:
Hyperion has a hybrid damage bonus and 8 high slots. So it would have the same.

yep that would make them just too similar
increase resist bonus to 10% or give other things to caldari like +1 mid cpu and pg

Oh Naomi, don't you realize how stupid this makes you look?
Goose99
#27 - 2011-12-22 22:19:39 UTC
5% resist per lvl adds up to one single enam, or one extra low, at max skills. Hype has 6 lows. It's a joke for an armor boat.Roll
Hado Eullon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-12-22 22:25:21 UTC
Quote:

I know this has no relevance to CCP, but Minmatar Artillery is a joke compared with rails in a technology sense. Why is it that the race that still uses present day tech for their weapons superior in so many respects to a currently theoretical weapon like a railgun that fires even more spectacular antimatter shells?

I believe antimatter payloads fired at a a sizeable percentage of the speed of light would leave nuclear and fusion weapons in the dust, damage wise, from the science point of view. Infact lasers would probably be pretty paltry by comparison.



I have mention this before, and I agree with it the reasoning, if the Amarr Laser technology WAS in fact able to do even comparative damage with the other types, and even some from a far greater range, then the whole of Amarrian tech would be so far past the other races that there wouldnt be much the others could do to touch their ships, as the technology to consistently support a damaging laser beam of that level at that range would put them centuries at least beyond all of them.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#29 - 2011-12-22 22:50:07 UTC
Can't fly half of the caldari ships.

Don't miss out on anything.

I am ok with this. Lol
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-12-23 00:40:45 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
Lissa Winters wrote:
Hyperion has a hybrid damage bonus and 8 high slots. So it would have the same.

yep that would make them just too similar
increase resist bonus to 10% or give other things to caldari like +1 mid cpu and pg

Oh Naomi, don't you realize how stupid this makes you look?

less stupid than you ? who couldnt give us even one idea how to fix those ships?
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#31 - 2011-12-23 01:15:11 UTC
Lissa Winters wrote:

The Rokh and the Raven are both typically used for long range damage. Wheres Caldari's medium range damage that is competitive?

Rails are Long.
Missiles are Long.
Blasters are extremely short, and not really Caldari weapons.

Every race gets a torpedo boat. (SB)

There's a big hole when it comes to killing, rather than sniping.



Rokh has a gaping em hole....last place you want to be is in range of lasers and RF emp (which are not exactly uncommon) iimo. Embrace the sniping I say.


the sb and raven comparison, raven on a deathstar or say a hound (or any other racial sb). which will live longer? Which can be around longer to apply dps? the sb's will be spenidng most thier time gtfo after a few salvo's than being there for sustained strikes.


Outside of bs......rockets and hams. Rocket buff did them nice. Hams need some love but capable as well all the same. Will also put AML here, has its place if you know for sure frigate spam is coming up.
Harry Tubmann
Doomheim
#32 - 2011-12-23 02:52:42 UTC
While we're at it can we make the chimera less impossible to fit properly?
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#33 - 2011-12-23 02:58:10 UTC
Smabs wrote:
That's true. But then again the hyperion has the rep bonus instead of something more useful too.

It's useful to those that need it.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#34 - 2011-12-23 10:50:11 UTC
Quote:
Rokh has a gaping em hole....last place you want to be is in range of lasers and RF emp (which are not exactly uncommon) iimo. Embrace the sniping I say.


If you can call 71% a "gaping hole" yeah...

Oh and I just have to add:
Quote:
Blasters are extremely short, and not really Caldari weapons.

Oh look, the idiot of an OP ignored the bit where I showed that the Rokh can actually reach fairly impressive ranges with blasters.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#35 - 2011-12-23 11:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
Well IMHO the way to fix Caldari gun boats is the replacement of 5% a level resist with some thing else, seems silly to help the tank of a ship that also has a 10% bonuse to range.

IMHO double range would be more use full, if I need my tank super ultra strong well sniping I need to ask my self some questions like- how did they get that close? why have I not warped out/back in? why am I so close? why am I in a Rokh?

When is the last time you saw a sniper in a bomb suit? or a flack jacket for that matter? Or tracked field artillery with more or as armour as a battle field tank?

it's like some Caldari ship designer was all like
"you know that tough decision between weather fitting a sensor/tracking booster or an Invulnerability field? well we got you covered!"

To which I reply
"wasn't tough went sensor and tracking booster"

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#36 - 2011-12-23 12:01:31 UTC
They should change Caldari range bonus for hybrids to a rate of fire bonus. Awesome damage, run out of ammo fast. Sounds balanced.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-12-23 12:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
Well IMHO the way to fix Caldari gun boats is the replacement of 5% a level resist with some thing else, seems silly to help the tank of a ship that also has a 10% bonuse to range.

Except that said ships perform rather well at close-medium range, and the resist bonus is like a built-in invul field enabling a solid tank with relatively minimal slot use.

Basically: you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Quote:
They should change Caldari range bonus for hybrids to a rate of fire bonus.

Rokh does fine without a damage bonus. Ferox likewise, partially thanks to the recent hybrid buff. In fact the Ferox suffers far more from being a tier 1 BC than from the bonuses.
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2011-12-23 14:03:44 UTC
Optimal bonuses are awesome, especially when they are on nearly every caldari T1 hull.

The key problem with caldari gunships is the overall concept, of niche sniping what is kind of outdated considering everything is about high tracking or alpha this days.

The optimal bonus is to weak to give blasters a reasonable range, think of 20% per level and you really look at very cool and useful blaster ranges, what makes the ships even without the damage bonus really good(if you add a turret to ships like the Ferox). With this you could also reduce rail ranges considerable and give them a lot more tracking and maybe another 5% damage to give gallente a good medium range option and make the range bonus again work like a damage bonus on caldari hulls by the ability to use stronger ammos and reach out further.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-12-23 14:06:10 UTC
I feel I should point out (yet again) that giving Caldari boats a hybrid damage bonus in place of their resist bonus is simply going to make them better blaster boats than a lot of the Gallentean line up, as the range bonus and their shield tanks offset the poor mobility (which was and probably still is better than the equivliant armour buffer gal boat anyway).
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-12-23 15:26:12 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
The obsesive longe range on caldari boats lets you use anti-matter all the time


Exactly, infact the optimal range bonus is a stealth bonus to damage as well!
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