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Each rebalance seems to require a future rebalance
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Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-03-06 15:27:48 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
If people lose indicies because of afk cloakers, they didn't deserve the space in the first place.
... Roll
... because we are all bilingual in Japanese or have managed to carve off an organised group of Australians from a very small pool of players?
Indicies do not fall in moments. They are lost by inactivity over time. So, yes, if you huddle in your station too afraid of the scary AFK camper to go out and mine/rat for days at a time, you will lose your indicies, and under the new system, this will make your space easier to take.
Which is how it should be - as my grandfather would have said, **** or get off the pot.
Two days, 40 minutes each and it is possible to take an entire region with the planned mechanics, regardless of what you do if you sit around and do nothing to prevent it.


Fixed that for you.
Working as intended, it would seem.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Jenshae Chiroptera
#62 - 2015-03-06 15:29:08 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
If people lose indicies because of afk cloakers, they didn't deserve the space in the first place.
... Roll
... because we are all bilingual in Japanese or have managed to carve off an organised group of Australians from a very small pool of players?
Indicies do not fall in moments. They are lost by inactivity over time. So, yes, if you huddle in your station too afraid of the scary AFK camper to go out and mine/rat for days at a time, you will lose your indicies, and under the new system, this will make your space easier to take.
Which is how it should be - as my grandfather would have said, **** or get off the pot.
Two days, 40 minutes each and it is possible to take an entire region with the planned mechanics, regardless of what you do if you sit around and do nothing to prevent it.
Fixed that for you.
Working as intended, it would seem.
You aren't thinking big enough or where the weaknesses lie.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2015-03-06 16:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenahina
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
You aren't thinking big enough or where the weaknesses lie.


Well, let's take the system as presented (though we're straying a little far afield for this particular thread).

Fozzie-sov hits. Your alliance sets your prime time window for (if they're reasonable) the time when you normally have the most active people online.

The other 20 hours of the day, your sov is invulnerable, unable to be challenged.

Are you really telling me that in the time period that you have the most active memblers tootling around in your space looking for fights, you won't respond to "ALERT ALERT: System X-YZAB is under attack" in some fashion in less than a half an hour?

As far as the indicies go, nothing is changing in that system (with the exception of the Strategic Index being controlled by the I-Hub rather than time based). I saw nothing about changing how fast then grow or decline, so a cloaky camper in your system isn't going to magically degrade those numbers any faster than they can today.

I have seen you lot whip up fifty man caracal gangs and chase five of us Agonites across ten systems just because we were wandering by.
What's going to change between now and then?

--Side note: I'm not trying to be sarcastic here - we live where we do because we LIKE the fights. It's sort of our thing. I'm just curious why VOLT would stop responding in their usual fashion after Fozzie Sov descends.

Edit to Add: Will you be able to defend all the space you currently hold? Maybe, maybe not. Can you defend a core area? I would certainly hope so.
"How can we hold all the space we hold now in the face of the new mechanics?" is not the question that needs to be asked. The question that needs to be asked is, "How much space can we hold onto given our numbers and activity levels?"

Second Edit: And until CCP address nullsec income, things are going to be tight if you have a lot of people crammed into a small space. This is the biggest issue facing any new sovereignty system that, like this one, will force empires to contract to a size they can defend.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Waltaratzor
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
#64 - 2015-03-06 17:01:10 UTC
Rowdy Gates wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
The players adapt to the rebalances and new metas pop up, thus causing further rebalances and the cycle of life continues.



If this is the case, and it may well be, I suspect the very small minority is the only real beneficiary.

It also means that achieving true balance is a myth, or perhaps the real goal is not truly balance, but to add a further advantage to the most experienced and dedicated players.

I doubt in this game that the most experienced and dedicated players really need any additional advantage.

Is that the highest and best use of those limited resources?


Its a way to keep players busy. By nerfing something to the point its no longer part of the meta, you can substantial reduce the value of all those Tengus and Ishtars that are currently in the economy. Then people have to focus on grinding up the new meta ship.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#65 - 2015-03-06 17:58:10 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Well, let's take the system as presented (though we're straying a little far afield for this particular thread).
Fozzie-sov hits. .
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Agree with all save one part - people are forgetting the drawbacks of the link mods and that the targets are (essentially) broadcast. .
Okay chaps, listen up, this is the plan:

I want 75 of you in each of three systems for a total of 25 per SOV structure.
Now as to the other 100 of you, I want you to go and lock onto all the other SOV structures in interceptors, if you see three of your pals in one of their systems move on to the next one.
Wait for my "Go signal" for maximum chaos.

Tigger everything at the same time, every time.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
But there is no furnace in this set-up, there are no Armageddon battles, just a wet depressing fart-sound as the air goes out. Its just all something of an anticlimax.
Not to mention the inherent satisfaction of shooting their structures; being gone.

"I wave my magic wand at you! Appear and fight me scoundrel!"
"No thanks. You are the 1000th guy with a wand this week. Already moved most of my things to stations that can't be magic'ed away."
Essentially.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#66 - 2015-03-06 18:02:21 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
I'm just curious why VOLT would stop responding in their usual fashion after Fozzie Sov descends..
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The current plan will cater to a younger audience who are playing FPS capture the flag games. The older SOV players will get tired of yet another little skirmish in yet another system.
Welcome to Low Sec 2.0
On the surface that might be true. But the real truth is that that 'younger audience' has the attention span of a brain damaged goldfish where as the types of people who inhabit null now (and who can mentally and emotionally endure the structure grind environment of the current sov system) will be able to deal with situation of the new system in the longer run..
We have already discussed plans that do not involve SOV space in our future.
We have also talked with other coalitions and it looks like the smaller ones will disappear as a demonstration of how awful these mechanics are.
You might have noticed your little Agony roams don't get a big response? We don't care about little gang fights. If we want that we roam Low Sec.
That is why only a few come out and mess around with you guys.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2015-03-06 18:20:48 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
I'm just curious why VOLT would stop responding in their usual fashion after Fozzie Sov descends..
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The current plan will cater to a younger audience who are playing FPS capture the flag games. The older SOV players will get tired of yet another little skirmish in yet another system.
Welcome to Low Sec 2.0
On the surface that might be true. But the real truth is that that 'younger audience' has the attention span of a brain damaged goldfish where as the types of people who inhabit null now (and who can mentally and emotionally endure the structure grind environment of the current sov system) will be able to deal with situation of the new system in the longer run..
We have already discussed plans that do not involve SOV space in our future.
We have also talked with other coalitions and it looks like the smaller ones will disappear as a demonstration of how awful these mechanics are.
You might have noticed your little Agony roams don't get a big response? We don't care about little gang fights. If we want that we roam Low Sec.
That is why only a few come out and mess around with you guys.


You and I obviously have very different definitions of the word "few", but that aside, it is, of course, a viable alternative to simply not hold sov anymore if the new system is not palatable to you. *shrugs* But that makes the entire discussion academic really - it's not a matter of you can't defend the space, it's a matter of you're choosing not to, which is not something that is up to anyone but you.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Jenshae Chiroptera
#68 - 2015-03-07 01:27:25 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
You and I obviously have very different definitions of the word "few", but that aside, it is, of course, a viable alternative to simply not hold sov anymore if the new system is not palatable to you. *shrugs* But that makes the entire discussion academic really - it's not a matter of you can't defend the space, it's a matter of you're choosing not to, which is not something that is up to anyone but you.
iHubs are too easy to kill for starters so your system value is gone. No reward for having SOV.

When it comes down to it, SOV will just be too annoying for too little reward. The new mechanics are going to make worm holes, Low Sec and NPC Null more appealing than SOV Null.
That means it isn't a fix it is just destruction.

Low Sec 2.0

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2015-03-07 11:42:06 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Got to make sure your job does not become obsolete.

Exactly...

A lot of make busy work...
Beta Maoye
#70 - 2015-03-07 15:00:51 UTC
They shuffled the deck for each new round.