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Counter-intuitive mining prices.

Author
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#21 - 2015-03-06 18:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Phig Neutron
Roel Yento wrote:
As for oportunity cost in game... why not play as efficiently as possible?

If your enjoyment from the game is in mining minerals to build your own ship, then there's nothing "efficient" about running missions to earn ISK to just buy the finished ship instead.

Even in real life this is dumb. It's like telling somebody who wants to be a musician, that they should spend 10 years burning themselves out on wall street or in silicon valley first so they can earn enough money to take a decade off and play music. This is why you should never listen to an economist in real life or in EVE.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2015-03-06 18:58:53 UTC
Phig Neutron wrote:
Roel Yento wrote:
As for oportunity cost in game... why not play as efficiently as possible?

If your enjoyment from the game is in mining minerals to build your own ship, then there's nothing "efficient" about running missions to earn ISK to just buy the finished ship instead.

Even in real life this is dumb. It's like telling somebody who wants to be a musician, that they should spend 10 years burning themselves out on wall street or in silicon valley first so they can earn enough money to take a decade off and play music. This is why you should never listen to an economist in real life or in EVE.

While you make an excellent point here I'm not sure about you but I would say the majority of people that I know do exactly that. They grind away at some job they hate for 40 years so that hopefully one day they can retire and then enjoy life. It's just funny when you point this out it makes me think how many of us take that mentality in game.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#23 - 2015-03-06 19:10:27 UTC
I was crying inside when I wrote it...
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2015-03-06 21:19:04 UTC
Phig Neutron wrote:
Roel Yento wrote:
As for oportunity cost in game... why not play as efficiently as possible?

If your enjoyment from the game is in mining minerals to build your own ship, then there's nothing "efficient" about running missions to earn ISK to just buy the finished ship instead.

Even in real life this is dumb. It's like telling somebody who wants to be a musician, that they should spend 10 years burning themselves out on wall street or in silicon valley first so they can earn enough money to take a decade off and play music. This is why you should never listen to an economist in real life or in EVE.


In my post i was stating my perspective and how i enjoy doing some pve but in more efficient ways than mining if my goal is to get a ship. At the end i stated if someone else doesn't want to do so that way they have every right not to. Obviously those that enjoy mining and industry for what it is should play how they feel.

It doesn't change the fact though that if their end goal is to replace pvp ships and they are only doing industry because they need isk for pvp that there are other ways of making isk quicker. Way faster to buy minerals and components to build stuff than it is mine. Or let others build it for you and buy it off them then relist the items. Regardless of whether or not you like doing something doesn't make a task more or less efficient than another task. It is okay to decide to do something less efficient money or isk wise if you gain enjoyment and happiness out of it.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh fhtagn
0010110100110001
#25 - 2015-03-06 21:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh fhtagn
Phig Neutron wrote:
Roel Yento wrote:
As for oportunity cost in game... why not play as efficiently as possible?

If your enjoyment from the game is in mining minerals to build your own ship, then there's nothing "efficient" about running missions to earn ISK to just buy the finished ship instead.

Even in real life this is dumb. It's like telling somebody who wants to be a musician, that they should spend 10 years burning themselves out on wall street or in silicon valley first so they can earn enough money to take a decade off and play music. This is why you should never listen to an economist in real life or in EVE.


I love being a trader of faction goods in jita. WIsh I'd be good at it but I sure as hell love it and the minimalistic profits I harvest. I can only second the sentiments displayed by your post.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#26 - 2015-03-06 22:40:57 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Please don't write in the new players section unless you are going to write accurate information.


Is that what you're doing?


I do my best. If I make an error I will raise my hands & apologise.

I will correct your piece if you so wish:

a) Probes have not been needed to access grav sites in high sec for quite a long time.

b) Advising miners to mine rocks bearing Isogen (Omber ?) is not necessarily the best use of their mining vessels.

c) Veldspar is rarely 'ignored' by miners. Depending on which empire space you are in it can be the second most profitable ore to mine and sometimes the best.

Disinformation makes us giggle but I prefer not to deceive new players. I would rather they stay and play EVE.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Marsan
#27 - 2015-03-06 23:08:40 UTC
Akash Blint wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
People have had a decade to build stockpiles.

If you're looking to make more isk, look into other professions.


Any suggestions on what to do? I've only worked on mining so far. Not much SP in anything else.


Try exploration in more remote HS/LS area.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Exploration

It's more profitable than mining plus you can amuse yourself building the various blueprints you find. I'd also skill up to a cruiser for ratting and running the occasional combat site you find (like DED sites). If you like it consider LS/NS/WH exploration.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Marsan
#28 - 2015-03-06 23:21:12 UTC
This is regional, but basically you'll find that most high sec ores are about the same in terms of return. With only the rare exception like Kernite (better) , and Omber (worse). This is due to the fact that rare Ores aren't actually that hard to find in HS. Even a valuable HS Ore like Kernite is still pretty common if you know where to look, and often only marginally more valuable. If an Ore increases in value more people mine it, and the price goes back the the baseline. Rarely you'll see an Ore like Omber that refines into less useful minerals, and most people avoid refining and mining it.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#29 - 2015-03-07 03:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Phig Neutron wrote:
Roel Yento wrote:
As for oportunity cost in game... why not play as efficiently as possible?

If your enjoyment from the game is in mining minerals to build your own ship, then there's nothing "efficient" about running missions to earn ISK to just buy the finished ship instead.

Even in real life this is dumb. It's like telling somebody who wants to be a musician, that they should spend 10 years burning themselves out on wall street or in silicon valley first so they can earn enough money to take a decade off and play music. This is why you should never listen to an economist in real life or in EVE.

While you make an excellent point here I'm not sure about you but I would say the majority of people that I know do exactly that. They grind away at some job they hate for 40 years so that hopefully one day they can retire and then enjoy life. It's just funny when you point this out it makes me think how many of us take that mentality in game.



Um.... People work because they need to eat and dont wish to live in a box down by the river under a bridge. If you make enough you get to retire, if you dont, then you work till you die, or are placed in a govt supported home.


As for mining in eve - well eve is a game, you play eve because you want something fun to do in your free time, so if you like mining then mine, otherwise do something else. For me, mining is a zen like activity that I can do semi-afk. That I can build stuff from from what I mine is just a side benefit. I already have a real life job, so I dont need to turn eve into a virtual one, so opportunity cost is totally besides the point (especially since ratting suxs and imo is more tedious than mining).

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-03-07 03:53:24 UTC
I think the fact remains that a lot of people don't understand the allure of mining.

It presents no excitement or fun factor for me at least.
Chal0ner
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#31 - 2015-03-07 04:57:12 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Chal0ner wrote:
I only mined to get "free" minerals for building stuff. Mining to sell to get ISK is basically a waste of time imho as there are other ways to make more isk/hour.

(Yes, I know, lets not open the "those minerals are not free" can of worms. For my play style they were free, ok?).


My OCD wants me to rant at your logic.


Just to expand on this:

If you're spending time on it, it's not free.

For example: you mine for 3 hours to build a cruiser OR you do null sec anoms for 15 minutes and just buy one.

Time saved: 2:45, money gained: however much you would have made in the remaining time.


I said "Do not open that can of worms" I am perfectly aware of this argument. It wasn't valid then, it's not valid now. For the play style back then they were free, OK?
Durbon Groth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-03-10 23:46:03 UTC
Akash Blint wrote:

Any suggestions on what to do? I've only worked on mining so far. Not much SP in anything else.


If you''re enjoying mining think about training to gas mine, it's a pretty legit profession. Start with lowsec gas regions, you'll need a scanning ship and a venture - the +2 warp drive strength will help keep you alive. Scan gas clouds, mine, repeat. Once you've had your fun there upgrade to the Prospect, add a cloak and you're good for a day out in nullsec or wormhole space mining rich clouds, getting lost, killed and/or making loads of isk.
If you get used to wormhole or can become semi-sufficient in NPC null through the use of mobile depots and a blockade runner then there's also the high-end ores which will maybe net you a bit more profit.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#33 - 2015-03-11 00:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Phig Neutron wrote:
You nerds that obsess about opportunity cost...

Because trading down in value makes more sense?

I'll buy "free minerals" at below market value anytime!


I seem to remember a scene from "Green Acres" (ya, I'm that old) that goes something like this:

Labourer> I'll do it for $500!
Wife> $400!
Labourer> $475!
Wife> $300!
Labourer> $400!
Wife> $200!
Labourer> Now look! This is why I prefer dealing with your husband. You don't understand how this is supposed to work [increasing the initial bid].
Husband> Oh yes she does! [The initial offer was unreasonable.]

It ends with the labourer accepting the wife's last bid, far below her first bid, not risking that she'll go even lower.
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