These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Casual PI and Real numbers in Highsec
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kwilyn Bathana
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-12-22 14:52:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kwilyn Bathana
I wanted to share this because while there has been alot of good advice about PI in here I never saw a summary for a casual pilot wondering about PI ....if you see any mistakes please help me correct them.

This is a setup and summary for someone who wants to try PI without a huge commitment.


This level of commitment (what i call casual PI) requires these skills

Remote Sensing 3
Command Center Upgrades 2

This is what it costs to do this

Skill Books

Remote Sensing.............................250,000 Isk
Command Center Upgrades...........450,000

Bought from Market

Command Center...........................81,000

Planetary Infrastructure

Command Center Upgrade 1.........580.000

Command Center Upgrade 2.........930,000

Launchpad.....................................900,000

Extractor Control Unit....................45.000 x 2

Basic Industry Facility....................75,000 x 2

Advanced Industry Facility.............250,000

Total........................3,681,000 isk


You can see my setup with 3 extractor heads each at

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m498/harescramble/20111222105035.jpg

I used the "Launch Pad Centric" style of building where the launch pad acts as the storage facility and everything is routed thru it.

The Command Center is out of the screenshot but its there and not connected.

The return on the investment

The one Advanced factory will make 120 tier 2 refined commodities per day.

Taxes to export a unit of tier 2 in highsec are 10% of 9000 isk or 900 isk per unit. So 120 x 900 isk = 108,000 isk

Lets say the tier 2 item (in my case Enriched Uranium) sells for 10,000 isk per unit


120 tier 2 units per day x 10,000 isk market value = 1,200,000 isk per day


( 1,200,000 isk ) minus ( export taxes of 108,000 isk ) minus ( 1% market sales tax ) = 1,081,080 per day profit.


That will pay off the initial investment in 4 days and add over a million isk per day to wallet.


Note on making this setup better

There is also a way to gain a minor increase in production. Using 3 extractor heads will cause the raw material to slowly build up excess in the Launch Pad. Another Basic Industry Facility can be placed by lowering one Extractor to 2 heads. However this requires monitoring the setup and making changes depending on which material is needed or in excess - pretty much defeating the whole concept of "casual PI"
Casual PI will usually lead to missing a few hours here and there and if that doesn't use up the excess raw materials i can deliberately let the timer elapse on the 3 extractor heads setup. I don't believe it's worth exporting the raw materials.
SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-12-22 16:22:33 UTC
PI is a real number, however in Hi-Sec it is represented as a rational number (even CCP can't store PI as anything but a rational approximation of its real value).

your humble servent
SeaSaw
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
#3 - 2011-12-22 16:49:08 UTC
"Casual PI"

Is that like when you just multiply by 3 to get a rough approximation, instead of 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028 ?
Mazimillius
Jester's Fleet
Jester's Alliance
#4 - 2011-12-22 17:15:39 UTC
What does the routing look like?
I've got a Gas Extractor CU routed to my Launch Pad(LP) that's routed to my Gas Basic Industry Facility(GBIF),

Extractor: extracting base betals and routed to LP

Launch Pad: routed to GBIF

GBIF: producing Reactive Metals and routing back to LP

Is this an appropriate set-up?
Kwilyn Bathana
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-12-22 17:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kwilyn Bathana
Mazimillius wrote:
What does the routing look like?
I've got a Gas Extractor CU routed to my Launch Pad(LP) that's routed to my Gas Basic Industry Facility(GBIF),

Extractor: extracting base betals and routed to LP

Launch Pad: routed to GBIF

GBIF: producing Reactive Metals and routing back to LP

Is this an appropriate set-up?


Yes that is how the routing works. You are producing a tier 1 product thou and your setup would look different and have a

different isk return. I would be curious how you do - what your income is. I choose to make a tier 2 product thinking that by making it on planet it took away the tax mans cut on the tier 1 materials.
Mazimillius
Jester's Fleet
Jester's Alliance
#6 - 2011-12-22 17:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mazimillius
So I would want to put in another GBIF that produces a complementary "item" that I could then combine with the initial GBIF in an Advanced Facility to produce a T2 item?

Is there a "handy-dandy" chart that would tell me what I needed to produce at the basic level to make something worthwhile at the advanced level?
Kwilyn Bathana
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-12-22 17:46:36 UTC
Mazimillius wrote:
So I would want to put in another GBIF that produces a complementary "item" that I could then combine with the initial GBIF in an Advanced Facility to produce a T2 item?

Is there a "handy-dandy" chart that would tell me what I needed to produce at the basic level to make something worthwhile at the advanced level?


try http://www.hst-soft.de/korai/Eve_PI_Diagrams_v1_4.pdf
Mazimillius
Jester's Fleet
Jester's Alliance
#8 - 2011-12-22 18:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mazimillius
ok, so I'm doing this on a completely different planet.

I have: Barren Extractor Control Unit (BECU) x 2; Barren Basic Industry Facility (BBIF) x 2; Barren Advanced Industry Facility (BAIF);
and a Launch Pad (LP)


Each BECU routes to it's own BBIF, one is pulling Base Metal and converting it to Reactive Metals, the other BBIF is pulling Nobel Metals and converting it to Precious Metals

Both BBIF route to a BAIF which is producing Mechanical Parts that get routed to a LP

I have officially blown almost 20 million ISK trying to figure this out, and I have no idea how long it will take for this PI set up to pay for the trial and error; but I'm thinking it's going to be a long while.

Anyone know of a "lucrative" advanced level item to make that requires minimal financial input?
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#9 - 2011-12-22 18:17:30 UTC
I didn't think anyone would use 2x ECUs on a sigle planet in HighSec.

This setup would fill up a Launch Pad in 55 days. LoL that is extream casual ^_^
I always assumed that players in HighSec produce P1 items. A Launch Pad lasts for 8-9 days and the profits are from 1.368.000 ISK/day to 1.800.000 ISK/day. I don't know if that counts as casual tho.Roll

Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Kwilyn Bathana
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-12-22 18:20:49 UTC
Mazimillius wrote:


I have officially blown almost 20 million ISK trying to figure this out, and I have no idea how long it will take for this PI set up to pay for the trial and error; but I'm thinking it's going to be a long while.

Anyone know of a "lucrative" advanced level item to make that requires minimal financial input?


Perhaps you didn't find the Launch Pad Centric setup on new forums when you where reading about PI before trying it, alot of
good info was dropped off the map in the recent forum change - my advice is always use google or some other web search for what you want.
Like....Eve PI guide would work...i'm not putting down the new forum but the search inforum will greatly restrict your info.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#11 - 2011-12-22 18:21:01 UTC
http://fazenda.w-space.org/

is a nice tool if you want to asses what makes what etc.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Mazimillius
Jester's Fleet
Jester's Alliance
#12 - 2011-12-22 18:22:01 UTC
1. How did you figure all that out?

2. Would doing PI in low sec be more productive

3. Would you use more ECUs?
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#13 - 2011-12-22 18:36:09 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:

I always assumed that players in HighSec produce P1 items.



I have 4 planets producing T2, the plan is to convert to a P4 on a 5 planet, though I need to do my 'feasabiltiy study' first. ie how much more profitable would that be than just selling my P2's.

I suppose I might be doing it 'wrong' though maybe the money is better just pumping low tier.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#14 - 2011-12-22 18:38:58 UTC
Mazimillius wrote:
1. How did you figure all that out?

2. Would doing PI in low sec be more productive

3. Would you use more ECUs?


1. I leave to the OP

2. Yes your extrtaction rate is higher.

3. No though you would maybe need more processing facilities to take account of extra output.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Mazimillius
Jester's Fleet
Jester's Alliance
#15 - 2011-12-22 18:43:00 UTC
. No though you would maybe need more processing facilities to take account of extra output.

I'm confused by this statement...

it seems that each additional step away from the extraction process whittles down the resource produced. so by the time it gets to an advanced facility two extractors can feed one advanced facility through two basic facilities. but then I could be wrong.
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
#16 - 2011-12-22 18:44:57 UTC
Mazimillius wrote:
ok, so I'm doing this on a completely different planet.

I have: Barren Extractor Control Unit (BECU) x 2; Barren Basic Industry Facility (BBIF) x 2; Barren Advanced Industry Facility (BAIF);
and a Launch Pad (LP)


Each BECU routes to it's own BBIF, one is pulling Base Metal and converting it to Reactive Metals, the other BBIF is pulling Nobel Metals and converting it to Precious Metals

Both BBIF route to a BAIF which is producing Mechanical Parts that get routed to a LP

I have officially blown almost 20 million ISK trying to figure this out, and I have no idea how long it will take for this PI set up to pay for the trial and error; but I'm thinking it's going to be a long while.

Anyone know of a "lucrative" advanced level item to make that requires minimal financial input?


DO NOT route your extractors directly into a factory - if you do, then any time an extractor cycle generates more material than your factory can immediately hold (3000 being refined + 3000 in the queue), you *LOSE* that material.

Route everything in-to/out-of the launchpad - extractors, BIFs, AIFs, all of it.

Extractor ---> LP ---> BiF ---> Same LP ---> AIF ---> Same LP
electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-12-22 19:59:19 UTC
If you wish to figure out costs, taxes and profits on your PI products, I recommend this program.

Asteroid Timer: Know exactly when that roid depletes! PI Profit Calculator: calculates your profits and taxes of any PI product depending on how you built them!
Alain Kinsella
#18 - 2011-12-24 04:14:42 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Invictra Atreides wrote:

I always assumed that players in HighSec produce P1 items.


I have 4 planets producing P2, the plan is to convert to a P4 on a 5 planet, though I need to do my 'feasabiltiy study' first. ie how much more profitable would that be than just selling my P2's.

I suppose I might be doing it 'wrong' though maybe the money is better just pumping low tier.


I also produce P2 products using two different P1 planet types (dedicating towards one POS fuel). I've just re-done the setup to have one of the P1 planets (with the more abundant product) also be the factory planet for this P2, and freed up a planet slot for something else.

This was partially possible since the character in question has Upgrades V, but can work with IV to a lesser degree now that the links have been massively buffed.

Using a 7-day cycle (checking in every 3-4 days to re-stock and monitor hotspot movements), its generating about 1.5-2 Mil a day (after tax). This was actually generating about half that, but the increase in taxes (and the subsequent larger market rise) has been a boon once things settled down post-release.

That's currently 500-600K ISK per planet (3) which ain't bad, and that could rise soon - one of the less abundant planets has begun to rise a bit in output for some reason (allowing a balance between two planets, which would be really nice).

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#19 - 2011-12-24 08:43:18 UTC
Mazimillius wrote:
. No though you would maybe need more processing facilities to take account of extra output.

I'm confused by this statement...

it seems that each additional step away from the extraction process whittles down the resource produced. so by the time it gets to an advanced facility two extractors can feed one advanced facility through two basic facilities. but then I could be wrong.



If you do PI in low sec each ECU creates more product, so you don't need more of them, What you might need is more basic processors.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Velicitia
XS Tech
#20 - 2011-12-24 13:16:35 UTC
Mazimillius wrote:
. No though you would maybe need more processing facilities to take account of extra output.

I'm confused by this statement...

it seems that each additional step away from the extraction process whittles down the resource produced. so by the time it gets to an advanced facility two extractors can feed one advanced facility through two basic facilities. but then I could be wrong.



Using fake numbers here, to keep things simple.

let's say with an 15 minute long extraction cycle (24 hour full job cycle), you can extract up to 50k units of a P0 (say Base Metals) with an ECU with 5 heads. After letting your full job finish (24 hours), we'll say you get a grand total of 200k units of P0 in hisec.

Running that same setup in lowsec, you get the same 50k unit spike at the beginning, but the gradual decline of resources is slower, so you get say 300k units of Base Metals.

You would need enough BIF (or storage space) to handle the extra 100k units of Base Metals that you're extracting daily.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
12Next page