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So who will be moving to THERA? (Jita without Concord)

First post
Author
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#321 - 2015-03-05 16:55:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Baali Tekitsu
Thera is the best place to be in game if youre interested in small gang PvP, however just as long as you use the sometimes 20 wh exits to roam, PvP in Thera itself is hell.


Topic: yes I moved to Thera and never had as much fun as I do now.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#322 - 2015-03-05 17:14:25 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.



Differ on what? That being successful at anything only requires intelligence and the will to do what you want? I think you need to actually read about history outside of Blizzard's website...


Awe. You actually believe that, how cute.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#323 - 2015-03-05 17:23:13 UTC
Asura Vajrarupa wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.


If you sell it, they will come.


Not when the same goods are available elsewhere with greater safety and lower cost.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#324 - 2015-03-05 17:30:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
That being successful at anything only requires intelligence, the will ...
...
resources,
finances,
education,
personal network,
economic climate,
political environment,
personality,
most acceptable appearance,
physical ability,
et cetera.


...and luck.


TL:DR I can't do anything because I don't have all the outside stuff on needs to be successful. I mean really, that Jen guy spent the time making up an 'excuse list'.

And those two posters get mad at me when I tell them they display victim thinking...


So you're denying that any of those things are a factor?

I think we just found the Republican nominee for 2016.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#325 - 2015-03-05 17:38:40 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
That being successful at anything only requires intelligence, the will ...
...
resources,
finances,
education,
personal network,
economic climate,
political environment,
personality,
most acceptable appearance,
physical ability,
et cetera.


...and luck.


TL:DR I can't do anything because I don't have all the outside stuff on needs to be successful. I mean really, that Jen guy spent the time making up an 'excuse list'.

And those two posters get mad at me when I tell them they display victim thinking...


So you're denying that any of those things are a factor?

I think we just found the Republican nominee for 2016.


I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves). The post I quoted is a text book example of the kind of thinking behind that.

And I'm not running in 2016. 2020 maybe, if the rent is still too damn high.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#326 - 2015-03-05 20:09:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves). The post I quoted is a text book example of the kind of thinking behind that.

And I'm not running in 2016. 2020 maybe, if the rent is still too damn high.


Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.

And this is a departure from my sole point which was that a cursory glance at human history proves that markets require stability and order to develop. People engage in economic activity in EVE for the same reasons they do in real life - to make a profit. An environment prone to high levels of unpredictable risk is not an attractive business climate.

I'm sure Thera is interesting from an exploration/PvP perspective and useful as a transit point between the different security zones, but it does not meet the conditions for a viable trade hub.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2015-03-05 20:45:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves).

so... You are saying that should be find yourself in space without your space suit you will happily do whatever you want to do. Because you 'don't need excuses'?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#328 - 2015-03-05 21:05:24 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves).

so... You are saying that should be find yourself in space without your space suit you will happily do whatever you want to do. Because you 'don't need excuses'?


John Galt would assemble his own space suit out of space particles and sheer force of will.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#329 - 2015-03-05 23:41:30 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves).

so... You are saying that should be find yourself in space without your space suit you will happily do whatever you want to do. Because you 'don't need excuses'?


John Galt would assemble his own space suit out of space particles and sheer force of will.



Therea is cool. Most people over the age of 19 view Ayn Rand as a hack.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#330 - 2015-03-06 00:19:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
People display that mentality in game. "I can't do anything in high sec because of gankers",
Grab an interceptor and come ask our standing fleet about what we can't do and who is saying what we can. BlinkRoll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#331 - 2015-03-06 00:39:31 UTC
We're referencing Atlas Shrugged now?

Someone poke me when we start comparing the Keynes-Hayek comparisson to running sleeper sites in Thera.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#332 - 2015-03-06 01:22:15 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves). The post I quoted is a text book example of the kind of thinking behind that.

And I'm not running in 2016. 2020 maybe, if the rent is still too damn high.


Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.



So let us join together in collectives where the work of all is amassed and divided equally amongst all.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#333 - 2015-03-06 03:39:47 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves).

so... You are saying that should be find yourself in space without your space suit you will happily do whatever you want to do. Because you 'don't need excuses'?


No, I would prevent myself from being n space in the 1st place were there any doubt about having a space suit. Only irresponsible people "find themselves" in dangerous places, responsible people think and plan before hand.

To put an arbitrary number to it, peoples problems tend to be 99% them. The other 1%is the entire rest of the universe. People that understand this succeed (master your self, have more control over your fate) win, people who find excuses, oh, im sorry, "reasons" why the can't move forward, fail. Simple as that.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#334 - 2015-03-06 03:43:00 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.


Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#335 - 2015-03-06 05:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Jenn aSide wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.


Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them.


You're talking to people who genuinely believe that a Fortune 500 CEO only has his position because of some nebulous "privilege".

Don't bother.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#336 - 2015-03-06 19:47:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.


Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them.


You're talking to people who genuinely believe that a Fortune 500 CEO only has his position because of some nebulous "privilege".

Don't bother.
I'd argue the #1 trait to hold such a position is being ruthless.

Fortune 500 CEOs would fare well in EVE. Blink

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

ashley Eoner
#337 - 2015-03-06 22:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.


Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them.


You're talking to people who genuinely believe that a Fortune 500 CEO only has his position because of some nebulous "privilege".

Don't bother.

Not all but there is no doubt the right family name makes it far FAR easier.

Donald Trumph for example. The only reason he isn't a broke loser living on the streets is because mommy and daddy had a lot of friends. I could list a good hundred or so names of similar CEOs...


Then there's the people like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs who climbed their own way up and then took different paths once they reached that level. Steve Wozniak just wasn't a big enough ******* to counter Jobs.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#338 - 2015-03-06 22:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.


Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them.


You're talking to people who genuinely believe that a Fortune 500 CEO only has his position because of some nebulous "privilege".

Don't bother.

Not all but there is no doubt the right family name makes it far FAR easier.

Donald Trumph for example. The only reason he isn't a broke loser living on the streets is because mommy and daddy had a lot of friends. I could list a good hundred or so names of similar CEOs...


Then there's the people like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs who climbed their own way up and then took different paths once they reached that level. Steve Wozniak just wasn't a big enough ******* to counter Jobs.


Well, Bill Gates climbed his own way...

...but not before first attending to the only High School in the US which had a private-owned computer. That allowed him a kind of access to computers which few professionals, and let alone freak teens, had at the time.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#339 - 2015-03-27 05:33:12 UTC
I think CCP should allow freighters through Thera's highsec and lowsec statics. An alternative (and my preference because it would help industry at the same time) would be to give the system a unique reprocessing buff.

I tried stocking the Thera market with T1, T2 and faction hulls of all sizes along with modules and consumables. I gave up. The turnover and profit was less than my lowsec stations, even with the same margin of approximately Jita + 10%.

Does anyone disagree that the Thera market has utterly failed to live up to Fozzie's stated goal that Thera should become a 'Jita without CONCORD'? Thera is a unique system that offers unique PvP challenges to older players. This concept could, and should, be extended to the market. Jita trading is profitable but, frankly, routine and boring. I want something more.

So why has the Thera market not boomed? I think it is because of a) the PvP style and, b) the fact that there are so many statics.

First, the PvP style is small gang as opposed to large fleet with rigid doctrines. These sort of players are typically more flexible and better able (and willing) to supply their own needs. This, combined with the fact that there are so many useful statics to highsec and lowsec, means that restocking is rarely a problem. A DST through a lowsec connection will bring in half a dozen cruiser hulls, a dozen destroyers or two dozen frigates, along with a big pile of consumables. One such run is adequate to supply a good small gang pilot for quite a while.

This means that pilots are easily able to avoid the elevated charges that are currently associated with the Thera market. So should the number of exits be reduced? Of course not. This would defeat the purpose of Thera. I would, instead, like to see the mass limits on the lowsec and highsec connections increased to allow freighters through.

I doubt this would greatly change the Thera meta. Perhaps it would have back when Thera was opened up but the novelty of the system has now worn off and the meta is now firmly established.

What alternatives to a DST through a lowsec entry exist now? First, I could use a jump freighter to get stock to nullsec and then through an E587. No thanks. The risk/reward isn't even close to worth it. Let's say I were to fill the jump freighter with cruiser hulls, averaging 50m each, and charge a 10% margin. That is ~165m profit per load. This might sound like a lot but, considering the risk involved in getting the freighter to null and then into a Thera station, it isn't remotely close to being attractive. Especially given the margins and throughput that can be attained with far less risk.

What is the second alternative? Manufacturing in Thera. This is entirely reasonable due to compression mechanics. It is possible to bring in enough compressed ore to build an awful lot of ships. However, even having the highest possible standing with The Sanctuary does not approach the best nullsec reprocessing rates. And this is in the face of a ship market which quite often operates below cost.

Therefore, my wish is for the highsec and lowsec exits to be enlarged to allow freighters to fit through. Alternatively, the stations in Thera could be given a uniquely high reprocessing rate to make the DST -> hull route attractive.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#340 - 2015-03-27 07:53:32 UTC
Contrary to the belief in certain places of Iceland, Somalia is not a industrial haven and Somalian pirates are not known for leading world industry charts.

Trade needs one thing: stability. A trader must be reasonably sure that he will be in time to gather/produce, transport and deliver the items to the market. Being killed along the way is an option only when the market is flourishing, which doesn't happens when too many pioneeers are being killed along the way.

If Thera had high sec status, it would be flourishing. It wouldn't be safe, but it wouldn't be like walking in the streets of Mogadiscio with a handful of 100 dollar bills in your hands and looking stranger.

Also would help that the wormholes lasted enough to allow gather/produce-transport-deliver without alarmclocking and while conducting an adult life -you know, the one which limits access to EVE.

A highsec Thera with connections lasting three days and allowing way to no less than a hundred freighters each way would be like a traveling trade caravan -with a chance to buy low and sell high just by waiting for the right wormhole link, and a modicum of protection to attract enough pioneers as to seed the market.

But oh, CCP knows better. If wasn't that players too know when to dismiss a piece of poor design... Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you