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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Bounty System Overhaul

First post
Author
Privateer Cove
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2015-03-05 03:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Privateer Cove
Hill Attor wrote:
Ok, let me recap this thread.

You propose something. Which is great cause the bounty system is not perfect, way from perfect.

Then Cannibal Kane (2011), Paranoid Loyd (2013), J'Poll (2010), Orlacc (2009) and Ned Thomas (2014) are all saying you are wrong... And need to play the game a little more cause you are missing a few thing...

I think you did a good move by showing your idea, but it looks like your idea is actually not so good. Just by looking the reply you got.
I think I can double my isk every week with your system. And that's from a january 2015 new eve player. I've been scammed, ganked, and lost maybe 20m+.

I may even put my own "Bounty" thread soon in the Feature forum. If I do soon enough, I'll put a link in your thread so you can take a look (and discuss it here). But again, my system may have a flaw or two, need to test a lot of thing but can't right now.

Listen to the people who answer you (before me of course), learn a little more and rethink your bounty system. You will see what's wrong.

See you in eve.


Fair enough, I'll rework the design to improve its readability.

Simply trying to get concrete answers how to bypass such a system. I think the problem is players expecting a perfect system. Also my version is nothing but two steps further than the current system. It introduces liquidation, and improved pay-outs. Its simply designed to diminish exploitation. People will always try to manipulate things in there favor, its human nature. You simply have to allow that to a certain extent.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2015-03-05 04:02:24 UTC
Ok, final point then: liquidation and higher payouts are the things that will be exploited in your system. Once you understand how those two things are easily abused, you'll see the problems.
Silo Cannis
Hermetic Order of The Golden Nebula
The Wraithguard.
#43 - 2015-03-05 04:17:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Silo Cannis
The bounty system in the game isn't really in-depth, but it is fair.

Security status gains do little over-all and some gankers prefer to keep their sec. status higher in order to lure other players into a false sense of security around them. That is one game mechanic that has evolved from the current system and is unique to EVE mentality.

Part of the pleasure I get when placing a bounty on someone is that I am helping make said person a target to players that are more skilled than myself. Receiving the 'Bounty has been collected' mail is satisfying. I don't really care if it's a 'legal' or 'illegal' bounty.

ou either do it out of anger or do it out of trolling - both reasons completely valid within the world of EVE. In fact, I placed 10,000,000 on your head just now. Happy flying.
Privateer Cove
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-03-05 04:46:56 UTC
Silo Cannis wrote:
The bounty system in the game isn't really in-depth, but it is fair.

Security status gains do little over-all and some gankers prefer to keep their sec. status higher in order to lure other players into a false sense of security around them. That is one game mechanic that has evolved from the current system and is unique to EVE mentality.

Part of the pleasure I get when placing a bounty on someone is that I am helping make said person a target to players that are more skilled than myself. Receiving the 'Bounty has been collected' mail is satisfying. I don't really care if it's a 'legal' or 'illegal' bounty.

ou either do it out of anger or do it out of trolling - both reasons completely valid within the world of EVE. In fact, I placed 10,000,000 on your head just now. Happy flying.


With my system, they collect 10,000,000 and all my ship assets get liquified til there worth is equal to 10,000,000 market value and destroyed so i can't profit from destroying myself.

If players kill me now they can only collect 20% of my ships asset value. Which is in my opinion not very encouraging to bother with as a Bounty Hunter.

But if Eve players prefer that sort of soft mechanic then there's no purpose for me designing a prototype indeed. My background in hardcore games does not help me out here i guess haha. Was worth a shot!


Silo Cannis
Hermetic Order of The Golden Nebula
The Wraithguard.
#45 - 2015-03-05 04:58:58 UTC
Since you're new, take a look at the Implants/Skill Hardwiring section on the market. People rocking heavy bounties didn't get there without some sort of non-refundable investment.
Silo Cannis
Hermetic Order of The Golden Nebula
The Wraithguard.
#46 - 2015-03-05 05:08:46 UTC
People get killed all the time - the players that last are heavily funded already because of the years of time they put into playing the game. The point I am making is there is no real point to 'exploit' the current system like you are suggesting.

You are looking at the game as if the players are petty and accomplishments in EVE don't bring about a sense of pride. Even being a successful scammer is looked upon with sense of respect by other players for their creativity and tenacity.

This isn't your grind-and-go MMO like World of Warcraft. The quick buck is never made.
Privateer Cove
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2015-03-05 05:30:50 UTC
Silo Cannis wrote:
People get killed all the time - the players that last are heavily funded already because of the years of time they put into playing the game. The point I am making is there is no real point to 'exploit' the current system like you are suggesting.

You are looking at the game as if the players are petty and accomplishments in EVE don't bring about a sense of pride. Even being a successful scammer is looked upon with sense of respect by other players for their creativity and tenacity.

This isn't your grind-and-go MMO like World of Warcraft. The quick buck is never made.


Well, don't you think getting the kill on a high bounty as a new player would bring a sense of pride. And that the quik buck is only true in the sense if you manage to actually beat one of the best players in the game. Which a person in the beginning posts claimed?

I want that bounty from that acclaimed pilot, because i want it to be meaningful. I want Vic to realize that he made the mistake of his life. I want to rub it in his face, telling that his 10 years of piloting ain't worth a dime because i was there to hunt him down.

I get it though, some people want to play with little risk decent reward. But i prefer to pilot 100 destroyers to the depths of space just so i can get the kill on that 2B ISK bounty. I personally could care less for that 2B ISK bounty, i'd simply put it on Vic again to take his last bit of pride.

Bounty Hunting is the mechanic for people who want extreme risk extreme reward. Its not gratification, its a challenge.
Silo Cannis
Hermetic Order of The Golden Nebula
The Wraithguard.
#48 - 2015-03-05 05:54:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Silo Cannis
From the other side, having your name on the top bounty list is why pirates want to be pirates. It's going to take you a year to train your skills (in game and out) high enough to be able to take down someone that is good enough to have incurred a 1 Billion bounty. And the amount of money he made destroying people to get there makes that 1 Billion not worth destroying himself over. You won't be getting 'high bounties as a new player'. You can dream and aspire to it. There are guys in the game with 10,000,000 ISK on their heads (you're welcome) that I know I wouldn't even think about trying take out for another six months.

The top bounty right now is 110billion ISK-ish. That player has a 5.0 security status (which would make his bounties 'illegal'). His character was created in 2009. The amount of ISK he has gained through pissing off enough people, would be enough to satisfy the risk involved in the process. As well, he wouldn't be working alone because it would be impossible to stay alive, which means it's not solely him benefiting the rewards. Maybe one of his 'friends' will turn their back on him and take the reward - and it would be well deserved because that's just how the game is played.

This is what everyone means when they were saying 'go play the game first and come back to tell us what you think'. You are missing the entire dynamic of what EVE is to it's dedicated community. They market it in trailers as some fast paced epic space battle with an deep player driven economy, but its time and its work at the very least...if you know what you're doing.

*addition* Bounty hunting can also be just sitting outside of Jita, waiting for someone to fly by that if flagged and scooping that kill before someone else does. Something to do when you're bored, in other words.
Privateer Cove
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2015-03-05 16:36:29 UTC
Edited the flow chart due to over complication.

Could this be moved to the "Idea's and Suggestions" forum.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#50 - 2015-03-05 17:14:34 UTC
You could largely fix the bounty system by increasing the maximum payout to 100% of the bounty up to the value of the ship and having better value calculations.

If you also want to fix killrights you have to unfuck crimewatch too, which is another can of worms. Particularly it's a can of worms that 90% of the player base has very little understanding of but harbors very strong and largely misplaced feelings about.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2015-03-05 19:08:39 UTC
This is fun.

A trial newbie with no idea about the game mechanics has the solution to the problem.

Too bad, cause of same lack of knowledge, all his ideas suck even more.



Priceless

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Privateer Cove
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-03-05 19:33:32 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You could largely fix the bounty system by increasing the maximum payout to 100% of the bounty up to the value of the ship and having better value calculations.

If you also want to fix killrights you have to unfuck crimewatch too, which is another can of worms. Particularly it's a can of worms that 90% of the player base has very little understanding of but harbors very strong and largely misplaced feelings about.


Interesting notion, thanks for mentioning. I'll have a look when i get to it.
Privateer Cove
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2015-03-05 19:39:41 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
This is fun.

A trial newbie with no idea about the game mechanics has the solution to the problem.

Too bad, cause of same lack of knowledge, all his ideas suck even more.



Priceless


Surely you understand I'm forced to disregard your opinion entirely if you cannot logically deduce your reasoning.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2015-03-05 20:17:38 UTC
I've not read this entire thread. however OP I can see from your responses that you do not understand this game at all, which is fine you are new you are not supposed to know the game. Also it's not impossible that someone new could come up with a good idea that has eluded vets for years, sometimes a fresh perspective is needed, sometimes a better way of doing things has to come from outside.

But with regards to this system that you have come up with it show an ignorance to so many basic aspects of the game that you are not even considering. I don't think that you even understand how the bounty system currently works but I'm uncertain as it seems english might be a second language for you so I might not be getting exactly what you mean.

I have to agree with others here in saying that if you play this game a bit you will begin to understand why your idea will not work. However if you would like to get a better idea as to why then maybe look into how the bounty system was changed several years ago and why it got changed again to what we have now in a very short amount of time. Then maybe you will begin to understand some of the complicating factors that you are just not seeing currently.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2015-03-05 20:25:15 UTC
Privateer Cove wrote:


Surely you understand I'm forced to disregard your opinion entirely if you cannot logically deduce your reasoning.

It's not that he can't, J'Poll certainly can. It's that you comments show such a basic lack of understanding of so many concepts of core gameplay mechanics that we would have to spend the next week educating you on how eve works. Or you could just play the game a little and you will eventually figure it out for yourself.

FFS like so many have said in here play the game a bit and then come back here and look at this post. I think a year from now you will giggle at your own post.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Privateer Cove
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2015-03-05 21:00:16 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
I've not read this entire thread. however OP I can see from your responses that you do not understand this game at all, which is fine you are new you are not supposed to know the game. Also it's not impossible that someone new could come up with a good idea that has eluded vets for years, sometimes a fresh perspective is needed, sometimes a better way of doing things has to come from outside.

But with regards to this system that you have come up with it show an ignorance to so many basic aspects of the game that you are not even considering. I don't think that you even understand how the bounty system currently works but I'm uncertain as it seems english might be a second language for you so I might not be getting exactly what you mean.

I have to agree with others here in saying that if you play this game a bit you will begin to understand why your idea will not work. However if you would like to get a better idea as to why then maybe look into how the bounty system was changed several years ago and why it got changed again to what we have now in a very short amount of time. Then maybe you will begin to understand some of the complicating factors that you are just not seeing currently.


There are simply two main points the systems needs to do;

1

People are motivated by the concept and game mechanic of a bounty hunting and see it as a possible means to play the game, or as a part of.

2.

Limiting abuse without influencing point 1.

As it stands my current suggestion does nothing but make a linear extrapolation. I understand that this may be to simple of a approach, however, simply telling this won't do is simply not good enough of an explanation for me. All though you have a point in me having a limited amount of experience, it does not justify expressing yourself as such without giving a detailed explanation as to why. It is simply to ambiguous.





ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2015-03-05 22:29:18 UTC
Privateer Cove wrote:


As it stands my current suggestion does nothing but make a linear extrapolation. I understand that this may be to simple of a approach, however, simply telling this won't do is simply not good enough of an explanation for me. All though you have a point in me having a limited amount of experience, it does not justify expressing yourself as such without giving a detailed explanation as to why. It is simply to ambiguous.

I have already told you as well as every other vet in here. This is a deep game. A game that is known for it's learning cliff. I'm not joking nor exaggerating when I tell you that it would take me a week of explaining this game to you before we could even have an intelligent conversation on the topic. I'm not talking down to you as if I were some brainiac god of knowledge. I am telling you that you just need some time in the game. I'm not investing a week of my time explaining it to you.

There are simpler aspects of this game that could be explained to someone that does not know the game in a few paragraphs, this is not one of them.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2015-03-05 22:40:34 UTC
Privateer Cove wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
This is fun.

A trial newbie with no idea about the game mechanics has the solution to the problem.

Too bad, cause of same lack of knowledge, all his ideas suck even more.



Priceless


Surely you understand I'm forced to disregard your opinion entirely if you cannot logically deduce your reasoning.


Sorry, why on earth should I wadte my time explaining the game and all its deep underlying mechanics that are at play to a new player.

For the third time, go learn the game and you will find out yourself that your idea is "stupid" (as in, it cant work in the way your idea does).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-03-05 22:46:08 UTC
Privateer Cove wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:

Did you not see the part about manipulating the market to artificially inflate the value of said assets?


You will have to invest more than the actual worth of the bounty. As such it would be infeasible.



Hahahahaha.

Are you serious?


Game mechanics...learn them.


Market manipulation is both easy and very lucrative if done right.

Hell, some basic research on it would showed you that it has been done before (hintL Goons + FW overhaul).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-03-05 22:48:28 UTC
Privateer Cove wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Privateer Cove wrote:
You will have to invest more than the actual worth of the bounty.

No you wouldn't if you did it right, you would actually profit from the manipulation as well. As Kane said learn to play the game before you try to change it.


So you're telling me, certain players can corner the market on PLEX. Whilst PLEX is being safeguarded by CCP.


HAHAHAHAHAHA


Okay, now I"m just dying from laughter.


A. You can easily corner markets other then PLEX and make "useless" good actually appear to be even more expensive.

B. CCP does NOT safeguard PLEX. If you think that, you have a very very tiny amount of brain matter.

PLEX are as much free on the market as anything else. CCP has NO control over the amount of PLEX in the game and neither control the prices. Both are all done by us players, so yes, it's easy to manipulate PLEX prices if you have either the ISK for it...or are willing to spent a bunch of RL cash on the game.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club