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Stealth Bombers... a T1 version with out the stealth
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Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#1 - 2015-01-12 17:22:46 UTC
like the subject says, would like to see a T1 version of the stealth bomber, but with out the stealth, able to use bombs and torps
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2015-01-12 17:37:31 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-01-12 17:42:18 UTC
Tech 1 bomber would be good. I like the idea.
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-01-12 17:42:18 UTC
So.... A bomber?

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-01-12 18:07:55 UTC
Bombers aren't easy enough to train now?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#6 - 2015-01-12 18:27:35 UTC
I think a t1 frigate that does half the damage of a raven BS is grossly OP. Think of what this would do to freighter ganking and you may have stumbled on the real motivation for this post.

It's already too easy to gank a freighter. You don't need to add a super cheap T1 bomber to make it even easier.
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-01-12 18:31:03 UTC
The demonstrated need is where? If you're going to use a bomber, you'll be in null.
The only reason I can see is a supremely cheap jihad machine, and we already have destroyers.
An area of effect capsuleer suicide bomb doesn't sound like its meant to be used in teams, which leads me to believe it would only be used for griefing and awoxing for lols.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#8 - 2015-01-12 18:33:19 UTC
This would make POS bashes in wormholes doable with throwaway alts.

Not saying if it is a good or bad thing.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#9 - 2015-01-12 19:43:32 UTC
Just no.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-01-12 20:27:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think a t1 frigate that does half the damage of a raven BS is grossly OP.

Catalyst does that already, but with much better tracking.



I support the idea of T1 bombers, but without the bombs. Howabout make them into combo missile/smartbomb frigates?
We used to have t1 "bombers" but Amarr lost their missile frigate entitrely, Gallente lost their last few launcher hardpoints. Still got the Kestrel and Breacher though.

Would be nice to see T1 bombers use heavy assault missiles. That way they can have much lower DPS than the T2 while still having a competitive weapon, and it will also give rise to using frigate gangs to ambush cruiser gangs. Might make something that can fight the Ishtar. These should also use regular cloaking devices.



Amarr Bomber:
4 high slots, 3 launcher hardpoints

+10% EM missile and smartbomb damage per level
+10% heavy assault missile velocity per level
-7.5% smartbomb capacitor cost per level

-95% reduction in powergrid cost of fitting heavy assault missile launchers
-33% reduction in CPU cost of fitting cloaking devices
-100% targeting delay after decloaking
-100% velocity penalty from being cloaked

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-01-12 20:49:53 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think a t1 frigate that does half the damage of a raven BS is grossly OP.

Catalyst does that already, but with much better tracking.



I support the idea of T1 bombers, but without the bombs. Howabout make them into combo missile/smartbomb frigates?
We used to have t1 "bombers" but Amarr lost their missile frigate entitrely, Gallente lost their last few launcher hardpoints. Still got the Kestrel and Breacher though.

Would be nice to see T1 bombers use heavy assault missiles. That way they can have much lower DPS than the T2 while still having a competitive weapon, and it will also give rise to using frigate gangs to ambush cruiser gangs. Might make something that can fight the Ishtar. These should also use regular cloaking devices.



Amarr Bomber:
4 high slots, 3 launcher hardpoints

+10% EM missile and smartbomb damage per level
+10% heavy assault missile velocity per level
-7.5% smartbomb capacitor cost per level

-95% reduction in powergrid cost of fitting heavy assault missile launchers
-33% reduction in CPU cost of fitting cloaking devices
-100% targeting delay after decloaking
-100% velocity penalty from being cloaked


while t1 ships with bombs equals bad, I'd be fully behind a smartbomb frig, especially if it had a decent range bonus. I've never been sold on missiles, but i supposed they're overdue to get an update and buff, so just out of interest why velocity and not explosion velocity?

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-01-12 20:58:17 UTC
We have t1 logistics, t1 ewar, t1 interceptors etc. T1 bomber or at the least t1 torpedo frig would make sense. T2 needs to remain better, while t1 is an option less powerful but a stepping stone to t2.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-01-12 21:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Zimmer Jones wrote:
while t1 ships with bombs equals bad, I'd be fully behind a smartbomb frig, especially if it had a decent range bonus.
I'd rather new smartbomb frigs come with a proper smartbomb tiericide so that they don't need a range bonus. Alternatively, giving them a bonus to smartbomb range instead of damage would be reasonable, but it still needs to be tied to damage type.

Zimmer Jones wrote:
I've never been sold on missiles, but i supposed they're overdue to get an update and buff, so just out of interest why velocity and not explosion velocity?
Just like stealth bombers, these ships need to be able to keep their distance from their target. As they are using heavy assault missiles, there is no need for them to have increased explosion velocity against large targets. They aren't supposed to be good at fighting smaller targets. Basically: less small attack as a trade-off for more big attack.


Also, as long as these ships are designed for kiting (HAM fit), they should have resists slightly favoring their smartbomb type for when they choose to brawl. Could give them each 20% resist to their damage type on both shields and armor, but take away the 10% racial armor resist bonus.
So Amarr would have: shields: 20% EM | 20% thermal | 40% kinetic | 50% explosive -- armor: 60% EM | 35% thermal | 25% kinetic | 10% explosive

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-01-12 22:04:55 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
why...


gonna say this....


we can assume to get max bang for the buck this would be best flown at frigate 5 (when/if per ship level bonuses ironed out). Hell we can argue bombers truly live at CO 5 done. Got the frigate 5....CO 4 just rolls off real easy.

Well that and we got the t2 given as a caveat when ccp saw some where having too much fun with cruise kestrel. CCP been down this balance nightmare road already.

The added time sink, if it could be called that even, was the tradeoff that gut us t2 bombers. Guess we can argue elec upgrade 5 is a pita train. It be a hard argument though as I look at my say torp hound that needs co-proc to still come under grid by hairs with all its fittings and ain't no way its working without that 5 barring cpu implantsm, and they may not even work. The elec upgrade 5 not hardship here the take away...its a necessity. For some bombers more than others especially that fit tight as hell even with it.

Bombers already are cheap throwaway rides, they don't need to be even cheaper.
Sabrez Haklar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-03-05 02:09:54 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think a t1 frigate that does half the damage of a raven BS is grossly OP.

Catalyst does that already, but with much better tracking.



I support the idea of T1 bombers, but without the bombs. Howabout make them into combo missile/smartbomb frigates?
We used to have t1 "bombers" but Amarr lost their missile frigate entitrely, Gallente lost their last few launcher hardpoints. Still got the Kestrel and Breacher though.

Would be nice to see T1 bombers use heavy assault missiles. That way they can have much lower DPS than the T2 while still having a competitive weapon, and it will also give rise to using frigate gangs to ambush cruiser gangs. Might make something that can fight the Ishtar. These should also use regular cloaking devices.



Amarr Bomber:
4 high slots, 3 launcher hardpoints

+10% EM missile and smartbomb damage per level
+10% heavy assault missile velocity per level
-7.5% smartbomb capacitor cost per level

-95% reduction in powergrid cost of fitting heavy assault missile launchers
-33% reduction in CPU cost of fitting cloaking devices
-100% targeting delay after decloaking
-100% velocity penalty from being cloaked


Id be behind this. Make them slightly slower than the rest of the frigs. Also add a recloak delay maybe not the full 5 seconds of the stealth bombers but maybe 10
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#16 - 2015-03-05 04:00:16 UTC
Because Battleships need more counters?

LOLWUT!?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#17 - 2015-03-05 06:03:44 UTC
No.






Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Alexei Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
#18 - 2015-03-05 09:59:50 UTC
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
like the subject says, would like to see a T1 version of the stealth bomber, but with out the stealth, able to use bombs and torps


A great... A new cheap gankmobil...

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