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Entosis hull restrictions

Author
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#1 - 2015-03-05 03:10:00 UTC
After chewing on this over the last day I have come to slightly agree with those who are concerned with harassing gangs roaming about in Inties and Bombers with an Entosis modules just to grief (sorry, ibis invasions are too easy to pop to be taken seriously). Hulls capable of cloaking, hulls capable of bypassing gates easily, and interdiction nullification should not have it.

So, simply, the Entosis module should be restricted to Battlecruiser Hulls and only Battlecruiser class hulls.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2015-03-05 03:20:45 UTC
Petrified wrote:
After chewing on this over the last day I have come to slightly agree with those who are concerned with harassing gangs roaming about in Inties and Bombers with an Entosis modules just to grief (sorry, ibis invasions are too easy to pop to be taken seriously). Hulls capable of cloaking, hulls capable of bypassing gates easily, and interdiction nullification should not have it.

So, simply, the Entosis module should be restricted to Battlecruiser Hulls and only Battlecruiser class hulls.


i don't see way only BC class, i think only COvops and inties should be baned with this.

but giving the link to BC or bigger ships mighit be much easier and not such a bad idea
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#3 - 2015-03-05 03:20:57 UTC
Yeah, um... no.

Every hull should have it. Looks like patrolling your space and dealing with trolls is going to become part of the new "So you want Sov, eh?" paradigm.
Kunnilar
Moonshine Runners
Liquor Legion
#4 - 2015-03-05 03:24:21 UTC
Agreed.

Infact, I think limiting them to BC's ... (maybe BC and higher) , means actual fights will ensue if defending / taking sov, instead of aggressors being able to troll or use flaky methods to be irritating and avoid committing
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-03-05 03:28:05 UTC
With a 5 min and a 2 min cycle that doesn't start to do anything until the end of the first cycle, I doubt you have trouble dealing with people looking to pick a fight by using the module.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#6 - 2015-03-05 03:34:49 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Yeah, um... no.

Every hull should have it. Looks like patrolling your space and dealing with trolls is going to become part of the new "So you want Sov, eh?" paradigm.

Just because trolling can happen, does not mean it should be easy. Blink

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#7 - 2015-03-05 04:18:53 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Yeah, um... no.

Every hull should have it. Looks like patrolling your space and dealing with trolls is going to become part of the new "So you want Sov, eh?" paradigm.

Just because trolling can happen, does not mean it should be easy. Blink



I like that thought :-)

Yaay!!!!

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-03-05 06:09:04 UTC
oddly enough, I made a thread myself earlier that reached this exact same conclusion. It got locked and redirected to the main balance thread, which i thought was BS because we're talking about a specific part of it.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#9 - 2015-03-05 06:49:49 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
oddly enough, I made a thread myself earlier that reached this exact same conclusion. It got locked and redirected to the main balance thread, which i thought was BS because we're talking about a specific part of it.

I am inclined to agree that it sounds like baloney.

This is the discussion of a feature, not a rant, and a proposal regarding a forthcoming mechanic.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-03-05 06:53:24 UTC
I agree entosis module needs tweaking, but not by restricting hull.

If someone wants to go in solo in an interceptor to some completely abandoned system with no one in it, he should be able to take that system.

The problem is when you goes into an occupied system in a seboed fast frig. T2 entosis has a range of 250km, so you can burn around within that radius to structure and play hard to catch.

Entosis should have the same effects as cyno - generate a beacon and lock you into place. If the system is abandoned, lol for them, you just soloed a sov system. New sov working as intended. If the system is occupied, well, you can expect to be shot.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#11 - 2015-03-05 07:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrified
sabre906 wrote:
I agree entosis module needs tweaking, but not by restricting hull.

If someone wants to go in solo in an interceptor to some completely abandoned system with no one in it, he should be able to take that system.

The problem is when you goes into an occupied system in a seboed fast frig. T2 entosis has a range of 250km, so you can burn around within that radius to structure and play hard to catch.

Entosis should have the same effects as cyno - generate a beacon and lock you into place. If the system is abandoned, lol for them, you just soloed a sov system. New sov working as intended. If the system is occupied, well, you can expect to be shot.


I like this idea as well. Simply because you are not going to have someone cloaking up when someone enters the system.

I still think people who use the module need to be more intentional in it's use to make it more challenging for an interceptor gang armed with entosis modules in addition to their regular weaponry to undo weeks worth of work on an IHUB in 10 minutes - not so much to capture sov or to disrupt the competition, but to greif. I doubt the response time for a small alliance would be adequate for that. Unless you also add in the law of diminishing returns: the more applications of an entosis module to a structure still decreases the capture time, but degree of increase diminishes with each subsequent application.

In which case unrestricted hulls would be fine in my mind if the module locks you into place akin to a cyno and, while more ships applying the entosis module will speed up the process, the effectiveness diminishes.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-03-05 08:25:55 UTC
Make it battleships only, then battleships will suddenly have a role. simple, then we dont hvae to deal with the trollceptor fleets.
Erasmus Grant
Order of the Eclipse
Triumvirate.
#13 - 2015-03-05 09:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Erasmus Grant
Petrified wrote:
After chewing on this over the last day I have come to slightly agree with those who are concerned with harassing gangs roaming about in Inties and Bombers with an Entosis modules just to grief (sorry, ibis invasions are too easy to pop to be taken seriously). Hulls capable of cloaking, hulls capable of bypassing gates easily, and interdiction nullification should not have it.

So, simply, the Entosis module should be restricted to Battlecruiser Hulls and only Battlecruiser class hulls.



I said something like this on that thread that will never end, but battle-cruisers should be entry level hull for it and then supers and higher use T2. This will prevent grieving to a degree and expand the battle space. Battle-cruisers because they are the first ships that appear to have any form of command and control(hell the T2 variant are called command ships) with booster and etc.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2015-03-05 10:20:36 UTC
I would limit the module to BC + BS hulls. If they want to stick with the 400% increase in time for capitals then limit it to non super caps.

And T3's should be banned from having it for sure. Cloaky 100mn MWD interdiction T3 + Entosis Link, I'll let you mull that over for a bit...
Arla Sarain
#15 - 2015-03-05 10:39:18 UTC
Instead of panicking and doing some kneejerk reaction change

wait and see if people find enough counters with what he have.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2015-03-05 10:59:01 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Yeah, um... no.

Every hull should have it. Looks like patrolling your space and dealing with trolls is going to become part of the new "So you want Sov, eh?" paradigm.


QFT.

If an Inty can reinforce your stuff within a 4 hour window inside your 'prime time' then you probably need to ask yourself,

do you really use that space?
and do you actually deserve it?

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#17 - 2015-03-05 11:17:29 UTC
I'd much rather see it disable prop mods on any ship that has an active cycle. For both aggressor and defender.

I have no issue with anklebiting at sov holders. Harassing renters was once my favorite pastime. But taking a bite as big as an Entosis module can allow you to do should come at the cost of vulnerability. If you're going to bite the ankle, you should be in a position to get kicked.

This would have the major benefit of incentivizing escort fleets more than is presently proposed. The current proposal incentivizes scattering about and just being a headache, rather than actually fighting over anything.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Promiscuous Medusa
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-03-05 11:58:29 UTC
Make it Battleship only solving the "why would we fly BS?" problem ¬_¬
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#19 - 2015-03-05 12:34:12 UTC
Promiscuous Medusa wrote:
Make it Battleship only solving the "why would we fly BS?" problem ¬_¬


I would like to point out that removing the ability to activate prop mods would functionally have an effect close to this. You know, seeing as battleships are hurt the least by lack of prop mod.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#20 - 2015-03-05 13:24:00 UTC
I would not agree with a hull restriction.

I would however support a flag which means that the Entosis module and any form of cloaking device cannot be onlined simultaneously on the same hull... Doing so wouldn't significantly change the operation of the module, nor its use, but it should reduce the perceived power of the AFK Cloaker (which is already decaying the system indices) and therefore the potential for justified whines.
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