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Experiment #01: RL finance analysis applied to EvE

First post First post First post
Author
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#281 - 2014-02-28 00:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Nanatoa wrote:

So are you gonna redo the image with the May 2012 image? That's what you wanted to show right?


No need to use my time any longer, you have made your mind anyway (I spent enough of it drawing the chart at the end of this reply).


Nanatoa wrote:
In hindsight, in this particular case, you predicted the market for eight months. How often have you not predicted the market for any significant amount of time? For instance, how long did your May 2012 trend line hold? You count the hits and forget about the misses.


- This whole thread has records of most the stuff I have done, including posting real time RL trades and their outcome.

- When I have done my 100B funds I planned it basing on charts drawn in August and that in November allowed my to make 4% in 2 weeks *for the investors*. That is leaving an additional portion out for me as management fee.

- The 2012 trend line held *unchanged* for 4 months (plus its own 3 months). Adjusted for the new market situation it's still holding today.

- Guess what this post is for? How's that market now?


Nanatoa wrote:

Are you shitting me? You need 2 or more points to draw a line, really? The "may adjust lines" and "fails to make higher low / lower high" seems arbitrary enough to draw whatever line you want. You're certainly not consistent with it, as there's a slight difference in what's supposed to be the same line in your Oct 2013 and Feb 2014 trend lines.


Not a single word of what I pasted was invented by me, I just copy pasted what I have been told. If you don't like it, then it's not my business. "Slight difference" is more than possible considering the charts I have put together were not the same resolution, NOR the same zoom NOR the same horizontal candlestick bars spacing (it's expandable by pressing a button). When I look at a market I zoom and stretch the picture and am certainly not going to repeat the mouse window border drag operation with robot-like repeatability.


Nanatoa wrote:

Let's do the opposite then, mark swings which didn't happen at BRNs. Marked here for your convenience.


That picture has been edited too much in a wrong way so I'll mark a clean one.
By the way why did you "mark" as BRN a purple level that was clearly marked as "M"?

Here's a more correct picture

I added BRN 300M for sake of completeness (usually levels that get too far from current price should be removed to remove clutter. I began with tons of levels then learned the hard way what my teacher said: "less is more" and "trading has to be simple").

Every bar that was affected by a BRN was marked. In one case (big arrow) a whole powerful multi-month pattern (a bullish flag) formed because of how strong a BRN reaction was.

Red arrows = BRN acted as resistance. Green = acted as support.

Marking the swings that did not fall on a BRN makes no sense, no trader would trade bars in the middle of nowhere they are completely unpredictable. BRNs are used exactly because they are a "focus point" where to trade, nobody would purposedly mark where *not* to trade. Which by the way is not a lot seeing how many bars were influenced.

Blue dots mark "flips", that is very important levels that acted as resistance first and then as support. These are priority over the ones that don't do that effect. in this case the flips happened at BRNs but any level could do, as flips are swings based.


Nanatoa wrote:

There are plenty of known and long time practices which are utter nonsense. Astrology for example is a known and long time practice with adherents who swear by its effectiveness even though it simply doesn't work.


And this is where I got it that you have prejudices and made your mind in advance. If to you this is utter non sense, why are you even reading it? What's the point?
What about you read the threads (not created by me) where all of this is teached, plethoras of charts posted, *the rules I write here were first posted there* (except the trend lines rule, which I learned at a Futures trading course some years ago).

Basically, this is my package. End of.

You can hate it or whatever, I can't change what I have been taught just because you don't like it or think it's wrong.
You should possibly go to the websites where the method and rules are posted and teached (they are free and public forums) and tell your disagreements in there.


Edit: here's one of (thousands) charts posted by the guy who teached me. All he had to do to earn > 500 euros was to "predict" (notice the "") *** 1 *** bar which represents *** 1 *** day. And I "predicted" more than 1 bar. And far more than 1 day.
Nanatoa
#282 - 2014-02-28 01:26:32 UTC
You specifically asked for it a few post ago, remember?
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Finally: for the "less than believers": that diagonal bullish trend line is now years old. I have drawn it... I don't even recall how long ago. Still convinced that levels (dynamic in this case) don't exist?

Here I am, a "less than believer", and I am still not convinced by your vague and hedged statements. "I don't even recall how long ago" - indeed you didn't recall how long ago and I had to point out to you that it was way less long ago than you thought.

As I said this is nothing but an exercise in confirmation bias. Again you're posting a whole lot of 'hits', counting anything which happens near a BRN - doesn't matter if it's a wick or a bar or if it hits the BRN or passes it or just comes near it. The "Bullish Flag" isn't even near a BRN and it has the biggest arrow for some reason!
I can see how easy it is counting hits that way. You're basically taking a machine gun, shooting it a barn and then drawing the target on the side of the barn after you shot. "Look at all these hits!"

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011

RudinV
Sons Of Mother's Friend
Can i bring my Drake...
#283 - 2014-02-28 04:13:05 UTC
Awesome tread, while I don't have opportunity to read it properly its still very exciting to see trading software implementations for eve. Keep it up sir.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#284 - 2014-02-28 16:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Nanatoa wrote:
You specifically asked for it a few post ago, remember?
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Finally: for the "less than believers": that diagonal bullish trend line is now years old. I have drawn it... I don't even recall how long ago. Still convinced that levels (dynamic in this case) don't exist?

Here I am, a "less than believer", and I am still not convinced by your vague and hedged statements. "I don't even recall how long ago" - indeed you didn't recall how long ago and I had to point out to you that it was way less long ago than you thought.


If by "vague" (don't know what "hedged statement" means so I'll skip it (**)) statements you intend having tried to explain it including the very copy and paste of the text I use, then I am sorry, I will try better in this reply. If trading was about doing hard and sharp math then we'd have millions of billionaires. It isn't.

The thread's Readers have to thank you again, because I am going to post a lot of practical, didactical stuff that they will find useful.

(**) By the way I am still waiting for your reply about why you "made me mark" as BRN a static monthly line that was clearly marked with "M".



In particular, I'll try to describe the whole process behind a trend line so you can label it as vague again:

1) What's a trend line (TL)?

From Investopedia:

A line that is drawn over pivot highs or under pivot lows to show the prevailing direction of price. Trendlines are a visual representation of support and resistance in any time frame

From Wikipedia:

A trend line is formed when a diagonal line can be drawn between two or more price pivot points

These paragraphs tell that:

- Two or more points. Which by vague and hedged statement is the same of what I have written in my copy and paste.

- They are used to "show the prevailing direction of price".


2) Why are trend lines important:

"The trend is your friend" is one of the eldest yet most important mottos for a trader. Going against the trend means many things (most are negative) and trading against the trend is bad advice and needs WAY too many precautions, I (and many others) just don't do it.

Therefore it becomes important to find out if the trend is bullish, bearish or none. There are many ways to do that but one of the simplest is to find two or more "pivots" and connect them with a line. The "pivots" usually consist of bars minimums / maximums. Often times - it happens "naturally" for a market - those tell-tale bars happen at swings minimums and maximums.

3) How to use a trend line:

- You take a chart

- You look for price general direction

- You look if there's some swing or bars sequence that "catches the eye". it HAS to be quite obvious else it's not going to work. In my case I spotted a sequence of 10 weeks (10 bars) that would also match a corresponding upper trend line, forming a channel (here is the May 2012 picture). Yes I did not fully draw the TL down to the bottom as it's pointless if not harmful (as I said in a previous post, older stuff should be limited / removed to prevent clutter and confusion).

- Now you zoom out (so much for your desire of precision) and look if what you found looks "obvious and convincing" (yeah, so much for double precision math as well Twisted).

If it does, then you are DONE with the TL.

Did I mention the goniometric measured angle? No. Because it does not matter.

You want to know if you should buyORsell. It's that simple.

Only AFTER this step, you go to the daily chart and notice how the TL does not even pass close to the bars, or cuts through them or worse. Why? Because of the change-time-frame + platform imprecision effect I mentioned in another post.

What do you do, now that you know your revered precision is an empty chimera?

- You are advised waiting for further points to refine the trend line.

- You MUST perform an analysis that does not rely on the trend line exact location AT ALL. Diagonal levels are vague, imprecise (see reasons above) compared to horizontal ones, so they have two uses (3 counting money management, but that comes after the trade has begun):

a) To determine the trend, as I have already said.

b) To provide an additional information or confirmation. That is, they are really nice to see in conjunction with other price phenomena. Also known as "confluence". Read here for a nice, simple article detailing several concepts I described so far plus confluences.

Therefore your whole "but it's not exact angle" etc. etc. is not altering the analysis. The analysis can and should be done without relying on an exact TL location. Because it'd be prone to errors.

Even when you are really confident on a TL and it really looks "sharp and clear, can't place it anywhere else", by doing enough practice you'll discover how price rarely honor TLs with good precision. Like horizontal levels, diagonal levels represent a battle and that battle results in a "cloud" / distribution of bars around and approximating the level.

(continued...)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#285 - 2014-02-28 16:30:31 UTC
"But then, how do I trade if the level is not sitting at a clearly defined spot? How do I know where's the TL in advance, or where its effect will happen?

Exhilarating reply: "you don't".

Like for horizontal levels inducing pin bars and similar, you do NOT enter at the first bar you see that slams into a level. You have to wait for price to form a market structure, like in example a double top or bottom. And - if you want to trade safe - you also have to wait for the double top / bottom to be confirmed (see older posts for this topic).

After it's confirmed, if there's a diagonal level around, you'll spot its influence as it usually "bends" price into its shape. The acting of bending price into the direction of your trade is a facilitating factor that helps your trade go smoother and quicker.


Nanatoa wrote:

As I said this is nothing but an exercise in confirmation bias. Again you're posting a whole lot of 'hits', counting anything which happens near a BRN - doesn't matter if it's a wick or a bar or if it hits the BRN or passes it or just comes near it.


You write like it's not how it should be. Instead, it works exactly like that.
Of course it's GOLDEN when everything stacks nicely together, bars bodies precisely sit on levels and similar.
Those may lead to the well known "AAA trades". Some only accept those and do 1 super-safe trade a month.
But the others are not to discard and you have always to remember that a BRN (and any level) can and usually does act as effective level in certain dates (= bars sit on it) and as liquidity level (= bars tails cut through or hit it) in others.

As I said earlier there's a rule: "effective levels become liquidity and liquidity become effective". They change the action that the bars do on them but they are still levels.


Nanatoa wrote:

The "Bullish Flag" isn't even near a BRN and it has the biggest arrow for some reason!


The reason is simple. Bigger and meaningful patterns happen due to BIG impacts on price. A bullish flag is a semi-rare pattern that forms when price smashes against a massively strong level and has to go back and "dig" more liquidity (= strength) to later take a run and breach it.
A typical massively strong level is one with multiple, staggered blocking orders. Price can't even close and hit it before it's violently rejected. It's not common but it does happen.

Imagine two potent magnets facing the same poles, one fixed to the wall. You can't even get them to touch that the magnet in your hand is repelled away.
You could not hit the wall but hey, the wall IS there!
Now, you go 3 meters away, run fast towards the wall and this time you manage to hit it despite the repulsion.
Congratulations, you have just impersonated a bullish flag.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#286 - 2014-04-26 09:35:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Having fixed EvEMarkeHistoryDump to work with the latest client. I can focus on new analyses.

In fact, a lot of you have contacted me via mails about some items you want to know about before the next patch, I'll try posting some analyses as I get the time to do them.

Moreover, there are some nice news: as you might know, I am creating my analyses working on charts created on a professional charting RL platform whose details I have posted on my website. I don't want to talk too much about it on these forums, because it could be seen as some form of advertisment.

Anyway, the last update that platform got, was in 2011. Not just that, the old release is only available as a 32 bit application. It's a "dead software" now, which is not a Good Thing.

However, the platform developers have announced a new freeware version of it, available both as 32 and 64 bit flavours. It has a stringent limitation though: since it's a real time plaform (the old one was "end of day", which for EvE is enough as we only have 1 bar per day) they had to limit it somehow, otherwise nobody would shell the lots of money it costs Pirate

So, they limited the amount of securities (in EvE jargon: items) that may be managed at the same time to just two (2).

Of course I have found a fairly ugly but somewhat functional workaround to that, therefore I and you shall be able to do the analyses anyway, just with some "symbols juggling".

In the next days I will post a fully illustrated tutorial on my website to show how to get the newest platform, how to upgrade your data, how to not lose anything and how to still see the analyses loaded despite the limitations.

As soon as I'll post the first bits of that tutorial I'll notify all those who are subscribed to my Twitter account.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#287 - 2014-04-30 00:42:47 UTC
Coming patch: ride the changes, don't fear them!

I have posted a very general, beginner level article about Fanfest and the coming expansion. But it's seen from an EvE trader point of view and it explains one of the fundamental trader mottos: what for others is scary and a challenge, for us is a great opportunity!
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#288 - 2014-11-26 20:31:09 UTC
Thread unlocked so OP can update it.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#289 - 2014-11-27 19:13:01 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Thread unlocked so OP can update it.


Thank you so much!
James Zealot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#290 - 2014-12-03 14:59:18 UTC
Multicharts is no longer a free program. Is there another program you'd suggest?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#291 - 2014-12-03 19:56:48 UTC
James Zealot wrote:
Multicharts is no longer a free program. Is there another program you'd suggest?


You may use any charting software able to import OHLC data from a CSV file.

Anyway on my website is available the latest freeware Multichart version. You may install it and use it as long as you want. Links etc. should be in the relevant tutorials I have posted over time on my blog at www,vahrokh.com.
James Zealot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#292 - 2014-12-03 21:41:37 UTC
I believe I've got it. Just need to follow the rest of the tutorials. Looking forward to this because I love technicals! Looking forward to future conversations on this.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#293 - 2015-01-26 00:10:35 UTC
Heh,

today I received a mail from an old friend here in EvE Online (you know who you are, you can say hello here, if you want P).

Between several nice things he asked me if I still trade with price action. I don't play EvE a lot at the moment (only due to lack of time!) but yes, of course I do. In EvE and not just in EvE.

The next thing that occurred to me is that it's well more than one year since I have posted... say a Nitrogen Isotopes analysis.

It might sound odd, but with all the rabid competition to rank in Google... if you enter these words in Google search box:


Quote:

eve online nitrogen isotopes market analysis


My website comes at Google result #1. #2. #3...

Next comes EvE Central. Wow!

And this with nothing done in more than a year.

Time to fix this, in some time I am going to post a little analysis. I have not found tons of stuff but still... something is here and those who can spot it, may profit, from about 10% to 25% of their capital.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#294 - 2015-01-26 04:05:43 UTC
Here it goes.

A little Nitrogen Isotopes market analysis to warm up.
Actually I should warm up with something more appropriate than Caldari ice, I really do. Big smile
Artemis Oramara
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#295 - 2015-01-26 04:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Artemis Oramara
What are your thoughts on systematic technical analysis strategies? This subjective analysis seems too arbitrary and prone to error for my tastes.

Science has no consideration for ultimate purposes.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#296 - 2015-01-26 19:28:41 UTC
Artemis Oramara wrote:
What are your thoughts on systematic technical analysis strategies? This subjective analysis seems too arbitrary and prone to error for my tastes.


Do you mean "technical analysis with indicators"?

If so, I am writing an article just for you about how to add them starting with my setup and software.


P.S.

Thanks to who provided feedback and helped me spot a web page issue with the analysis I posted yesterday!
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#297 - 2015-01-27 00:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
After 5 hours of hard work... here you go!

The most complete, detailed and I dare say awesome step by step illustrated guide on how to go from an in game market window to a finished high end RL trading platform solution with some classic indicators on it.

Here's a screenshot of how it looks once finished setting it up.


Here is the link to the tutorial. It includes links to all the required software and everything is legal and free.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#298 - 2015-03-04 09:23:11 UTC
In a couple of weeks I might introduce a new, major chapter to this experiment.

A simple yet advanced technique to trade the markets without major analysis technicalities, without the need to wait for perfect price action patterns. A simple technique that allows to easily understand the buy vs sell orders pressure.

I am going to backtest it first, to see if it works in EvE as good as it works in RL markets. If it does...
Tiger Tesla
Zaraevahr
Khimi Harar
#299 - 2015-03-04 21:22:55 UTC
I have to say, I love the work you have put into this project, and am interested to see the results of your current project :).
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#300 - 2015-03-04 22:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Aryth
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
In a couple of weeks I might introduce a new, major chapter to this experiment.

A simple yet advanced technique to trade the markets without major analysis technicalities, without the need to wait for perfect price action patterns. A simple technique that allows to easily understand the buy vs sell orders pressure.

I am going to backtest it first, to see if it works in EvE as good as it works in RL markets. If it does...


It does, I actually teach it in our gs_isk jabber. Or parts of it.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.