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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Sojourn

Author
Vikarion
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-02-28 09:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
Miss Jenneth,

I would have hoped we would have spoken again. But then, the original (original?) you was always subversively mercurial. I understand that now.

You are what you are today because previous Aria was unstable.

I don't mean that as an insult.

There is nothing wrong with instability, per se. Aria's instability was an...intellectual restlessness. She would formulate theories and teach them, only to change her mind upon new information. I was, perhaps, a slight victim of this, but, overall, not an undeserving one.

I don't know if you received my mail, and, it really doesn't matter. All I really sought was to warn you away from Sansha - a mistake I made, once - and it seems you have heeded that, even if you never heard it.

Good.



I am a Caldari Patriot, and thus, biased. Accept nothing I say.

As of above, I am the most honest here, and will say nothing more of my own wishes for your determinations. And my honesty should not sway you either - many liars are more true in their beliefs. And many believe more heartily in their "truths" than I do in mine own, though I believe strongly.



All I will say as certain is this: the Angels will hunt you, the Sansha hate you, and you must live as a person with prior experiences that you do not remember. Aria the Original (ha!) may have wished a new start, but actions echo in the memories of others. And as such, understand that the previous Aria had a cachet with us, we capsuleers, whether we agreed with her or not. As such, we all desired to capture her approval for our own purposes.

So, be independent.



That's not entirely fair to myself. If you have a spare Tengu, it's the one I gave your previous self. Not because I wanted anything of that iteration, specifically, but because I had hoped to affect that iteration of you. Not in any particular way, but in SOME way. The hope of significance to another. Foolish, I realize now, but at the time...the you that you were then seemed a teacher, important to please. Don't denigrate the previous you. She was not entirely of darkness.



Teacher, I will not tell you what be. You brought me out of Sansha, and back into light. Colorful, unholy, very human and inhuman light, but, for all that, light.

For the person that I knew, but do not now know, and for the person that I was, but am not now, I will say this:

Don't make any irreversible decision. Don't commit. Learn. Write. Think. And write again. Now, later, or earlier, if capsuleers are the 98th percentile, Aria was the 99th. Use that. Absorb everything. Use it all. Do as you will.

If you choose the Federation, I will try to kill you, but at least it will be happily. Please. Choose without prior consideration. What is best for Aria, this time, instead of her ideas. Her ideas...well, they now live far beyond her memory, or yours. They don't need your care. Be you.


And as for the me that is now: touch my kin, attack my country, hurt my State, and I will hurt you. You are a stranger to me. Perhaps a potential friend, but I doubt it.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#42 - 2015-02-28 18:36:41 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Miss Jenneth,

I would have hoped we would have spoken again. But then, the original (original?) you was always subversively mercurial. I understand that now.

I did indeed receive your earlier contact and good advice.

Its tone seemed to imply "fair warning," but not invite return contact. I've had a few people approach me in a similar way. It even seemed to imply, "good luck and farewell."

Respectfully, if you were mixed up in my former life enough to give some of the advice you gave, I wasn't about to track you down if you didn't invite me to.

I'm a little lost, but I'm not desperate, and I like living.

Quote:
You are what you are today because previous Aria was unstable.

I don't mean that as an insult.

There is nothing wrong with instability, per se. Aria's instability was an...intellectual restlessness. She would formulate theories and teach them, only to change her mind upon new information. I was, perhaps, a slight victim of this, but, overall, not an undeserving one.

I wonder whether there's ever been a thinker who was actually consistent across an entire career.

... I wonder if such a static person deserves to be called a thinker.

Quote:
All I really sought was to warn you away from Sansha - a mistake I made, once - and it seems you have heeded that, even if you never heard it.

I did. I binge-read everything I could find on the Sansha, after, starting with the personal ... reflections ... you pointed me to.

If you were once with Nation, I'm impressed that you're not, anymore. Usually, I'd be skeptical, what with the technologies at play, but you seem ... well, actively partisan enough? ... that I doubt you're a sleeper agent.

Quote:
I am a Caldari Patriot, and thus, biased. Accept nothing I say.

As of above, I am the most honest here, and will say nothing more of my own wishes for your determinations. And my honesty should not sway you either - many liars are more true in their beliefs. And many believe more heartily in their "truths" than I do in mine own, though I believe strongly.

I'm starting to think you come highly recommended.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#43 - 2015-02-28 18:37:49 UTC
Quote:
All I will say as certain is this: the Angels will hunt you, the Sansha hate you, and you must live as a person with prior experiences that you do not remember. Aria the Original (ha!) may have wished a new start, but actions echo in the memories of others. And as such, understand that the previous Aria had a cachet with us, we capsuleers, whether we agreed with her or not. As such, we all desired to capture her approval for our own purposes.

I ... think it's safe to say this:

The Cartel probably created me. If ... the situation's what I think it is, they have no reason to hunt me. By existing, I lock down my predecessor's assets. If she's still out there, she'd have to resurface and prove I'm an unauthorized clone if she wants her stuff back.

That said, I don't think I owe them anything. If I'm their tool, I serve their purpose just by existing.

Quote:
So, be independent.

I seem to be, for now.

It's kind of lonely, though.

Quote:
That's not entirely fair to myself. If you have a spare Tengu, it's the one I gave your previous self. Not because I wanted anything of that iteration, specifically, but because I had hoped to affect that iteration of you. Not in any particular way, but in SOME way. The hope of significance to another. Foolish, I realize now, but at the time...the you that you were then seemed a teacher, important to please. Don't denigrate the previous you. She was not entirely of darkness.

You gave me, uh, her, the Goblin Spider?

Um. I think you succeeded. She clearly treasured that ship.

It's also the one she used to disappear, at the expense of her crew.

If I've got one possession that deserves to be haunted.... Brr.

Quote:
Don't make any irreversible decision. Don't commit. Learn. Write. Think. And write again. Now, later, or earlier, if capsuleers are the 98th percentile, Aria was the 99th. Use that. Absorb everything. Use it all. Do as you will.

If you choose the Federation, I will try to kill you, but at least it will be happily. Please. Choose without prior consideration. What is best for Aria, this time, instead of her ideas. Her ideas...well, they now live far beyond her memory, or yours. They don't need your care. Be you.

And as for the me that is now: touch my kin, attack my country, hurt my State, and I will hurt you. You are a stranger to me. Perhaps a potential friend, but I doubt it.

I guess I took a Sansha and made a poet.

I'm ... only joking a tiny bit, there.

You're an intriguing and kind of frightening person, Vikarion. I'll remember your words.

Thank you.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#44 - 2015-03-02 03:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Entry Three

Another strange day.

The Seyllin Conference was something I ... sort of attended partly because a friend was involved and partly because the subject was to include the Drifters ... which I've been interested in and maybe a little involved, but ...

It turned out I'd been a central figure in one of the events being discussed.

It seems the Sleepers might have ... talked to me? During the outbreak of Sansha's incursions?

"Hi Aria!"

... it seems like an unlikely way for Sleepers to talk.

For what seems like the five hundredth time I'm wondering whose head I'm in.

Only, increasingly, I kind of know.

The closing address, by Saede Riordan, was ... um. Well, she seemed to feel that we're on the edge of becoming gods.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel very godlike. My ship is still huge, the station is huger, and space is ...

... yeah.

I'm pretty small.

More to the point, I don't think I'm qualified to be a god. I kind of doubt any of us are. Throughout the whole thing, I kept wondering how long ago the Jove must have been making speeches like that one.

On the other hand, it turns out the Gallente build these odd mechanisms into their chairs that adjust them to the user. As someone who stands well below average height even for Achura, I really appreciate that, even if I did initially feel like I was about to get eaten by the furniture.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#45 - 2015-03-02 03:36:17 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

The closing address, by Saede Riordan, was ... um. Well, she seemed to feel that we're on the edge of becoming gods.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel very godlike. My ship is still huge, the station is huger, and space is ...

... yeah.

I'm pretty small.

More to the point, I don't think I'm qualified to be a god. I kind of doubt any of us are. Throughout the whole thing, I kept wondering how long ago the Jove must have been making speeches like that one.

It is a sign of a developing insanity when a human begins to claim they are becoming a divinity.
Such claims are not to be rationalized or rebutted, tried on ourselves, Ms. Jenneth. I believe it is better to just discard and forget this, instead think about something that is more important. For example, about what we can do and what we should do.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#46 - 2015-03-02 03:37:49 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
The closing address, by Saede Riordan, was ... um. Well, she seemed to feel that we're on the edge of becoming gods.


Ms. Riordan, like many capsuleers, does not actually understand what divinity is. Capsuleers are no where close to godhood, they just wish to believe they are so that they can feel special about themselves.

If this is the kind of thing that was being presented at SeyCon then I'm glad I didn't attend.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2015-03-02 03:45:15 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ms. Riordan, like many capsuleers, does not actually understand what divinity is. Capsuleers are no where close to godhood, they just wish to believe they are so that they can feel special about themselves.

If this is the kind of thing that was being presented at SeyCon then I'm glad I didn't attend.

In defense of the conference generally, that was ... sort of an outlying case?

Most of the conference consisted of capsuleers who were experts in areas of astrophysics, archeology, or fields whose names haven't been invented yet (Drifterology?) just ... explaining and answering questions about those fields.

It wasn't until the very end that things got ... fraught. Maybe a third of the audience seemed to want to explode out of their seats with joy, another third with rage, and the middling third ... just sort of sat there looking awkward.
Eli Sariah
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-03-02 03:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Sariah
Samira Kernher wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
The closing address, by Saede Riordan, was ... um. Well, she seemed to feel that we're on the edge of becoming gods.


Ms. Riordan, like many capsuleers, does not actually understand what divinity is. Capsuleers are no where close to godhood, they just wish to believe they are so that they can feel special about themselves.

If this is the kind of thing that was being presented at SeyCon then I'm glad I didn't attend.


Could not have said it better myself sister Kernher,

We are just His divine will incarnate, here to do His bidding, to protect and fight for His people, I find it refreshing to see a Capsuleer who does not claim to be a God, or God-like, we are merely mortals, given an opportunity at something more, and, in my mind, to serve His divine will unto a point past death..

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin"

Humble regards, Eli Sariah

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#49 - 2015-03-02 03:50:37 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
In defense of the conference generally, that was ... sort of an outlying case?

Most of the conference consisted of capsuleers who were experts in areas of astrophysics, archeology, or fields whose names haven't been invented yet (Drifterology?) just ... explaining and answering questions about those fields.

It wasn't until the very end that things got ... fraught. Maybe a third of the audience seemed to want to explode out of their seats with joy, another third with rage, and the middling third ... just sort of sat there looking awkward.


Well, good that it was mostly positive then.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#50 - 2015-03-03 22:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Entry Four

An Amarrian pilot I spoke with today said something I hadn't thought about before. Maybe not quite something for the ... more focused log; it's too personal. But....

She seemed to find it really frustrating, that I am here learning about the Amarr, without really contemplating ever joining their faith.

Apparently she's been keeping score: people she can convert, people she can't. I guess it must be kind of like tallying people you've rescued from ... some sort of natural disaster, like a flood, versus people who've been swept out of reach.

If that's true, I must be a particularly agonizing sort of loss: someone who's right there in reach, eager to listen, eager to learn, but whatever she explains I just sort of ... absorb it as data, instead of ... I don't know ... truth.

Whatever she tries, she just can't get a good grip, and before long I'll be swept out of reach again. Another doomed soul she couldn't save. Naturally, my explaining ahead of time that I'll probably be tough to rescue doesn't help at all.

It would be hard to see the world that way. Really hard.

Do the Amarr, generally, see the world like this?
Ollie Rundle
#51 - 2015-03-03 22:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ollie Rundle
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ms. Riordan, like many capsuleers, does not actually understand what divinity is.


Admittedly, I'm taking your quote out of context Samira but it's an interesting comment that implies you have some perspective of what divinity is.

I'm interested in coming to some understanding of both your definition and the process that brought you to it - if you're interested in (and comfortable with) explaining it to me can I suggest either opening another thread or moving such a discussion to a private channel so as not to derail this one?
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#52 - 2015-03-03 22:52:12 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I don't think I'm qualified to be a god. I kind of doubt any of us are.


Well, I think Synthia would probably be the one to make the best attempt at it.

In any case, delusions of godhood, quickly reveal the delusionee to lack any real imagination.

They acquire the ability to do something, and then suddenly find themselves unable to do anything constructive with it, due to the failure of their own imagination.

So they end up attacking their peers in a fit of self-indulgent violence, because they are unable to think of anything to do, having exhausted all the possibilities their limited imagination could envision.

It's all rather tedious and dull.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Eli Sariah
Doomheim
#53 - 2015-03-03 23:02:37 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
An Amarrian pilot I spoke with today said something I hadn't thought about before. Maybe not quite something for the ... more focused log; it's too personal. But....

She seemed to find it really frustrating, that I am here learning about the Amarr, without really contemplating ever joining their faith.

Apparently she's been keeping score: people she can convert, people she can't. I guess it must be kind of like tallying people you've rescued from ... some sort of natural disaster, like a flood, versus people who've been swept out of reach.

If that's true, I must be a particularly agonizing sort of loss: someone who's right there in reach, eager to listen, eager to learn, but whatever she explains I just sort of ... absorb it as data, instead of ... I don't know ... truth.

Whatever she tries, she just can't get a good grip, and before long I'll be swept out of reach again. Another doomed soul she couldn't save. Naturally, my explaining ahead of time that I'll probably be tough to rescue doesn't help at all.

It would be hard to see the world that way. Really hard.

Do the Amarr, generally, see the world like this?


No.. We do not, well.. At least i do not, though i do wish for the cluster to join His divine light, it is.. Wrong.. To keep score and view the cluster as such.. I am sorry you are getting a somewhat.. Negative view of us.. As i have offered before i am more then happy to meet with you, and give you the view of a student and ex-soldier of His armies, and i only wish for peace in the cluster at large, I can only speak with my heart and from what i know.

Humble regards, Eli Sariah

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#54 - 2015-03-03 23:13:49 UTC
Eli Sariah wrote:
I am sorry you are getting a somewhat.. Negative view of us..

Um ... respectfully, it doesn't seem to me to be ... negative, exactly. Painful, perhaps, but ... I'd think of callousness or cruelty as negative.

Sorrow over losing a soul ... that's not really a negative thing. But it seemed to hurt, and it was painful to be the cause of it.

I am looking forward to meeting with you, Mr. Sariah. There will be time.
Eli Sariah
Doomheim
#55 - 2015-03-03 23:18:18 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Eli Sariah wrote:
I am sorry you are getting a somewhat.. Negative view of us..

Um ... respectfully, it doesn't seem to me to be ... negative, exactly. Painful, perhaps, but ... I'd think of callousness or cruelty as negative.

Sorrow over losing a soul ... that's not really a negative thing. But it seemed to hurt, and it was painful to be the cause of it.

I am looking forward to meeting with you, Mr. Sariah. There will be time.


I.. I think i understand what you mean.. Forgive me, words are not my forte.. But you are learning our faith and culture, you are trying to understand us, for that i thank you, you are doing more then most, i know you are not doing it to join our faith, but you are learning it's values i hope.. I hope you see the purity and light in His faith.

I hope it will be soon, i will be attending the Praetorian Ceremony, i heard you received an invite, i hope to see you there

Humble regards, Eli Sariah

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2015-03-03 23:29:03 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:


Do the Amarr, generally, see the world like this?


Generally ? Maybe... I do not. I do.. not see the point at all.

I believe, with the utmost respect for that person, that she is just hurrying herself out of a lack of open mindedness... Some people share a vision, but do not dress alike, do not behave alike, and uh... do not generally think alike. Yet they share a vision, and one would like the other one to be a carbon copy of the first one.

Ironically here in this case, the selflessness devoted to share one's Faith with someone else, and eventually to bring that someone else to one's Faith, becomes selfishness. Which is a sin, I guess...


Ollie Rundle wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ms. Riordan, like many capsuleers, does not actually understand what divinity is.


Admittedly, I'm taking your quote out of context Samira but it's an interesting comment that implies you have some perspective of what divinity is.

I'm interested in coming to some understanding of both your definition and the process that brought you to it - if you're interested in (and comfortable with) explaining it to me can I suggest either opening another thread or moving such a discussion to a private channel so as not to derail this one?


Misunderstandings ? Ms Riordan merely speaked in relative terms... no ? Compared to baseliners, capsuleers are gods, at least in terms of power, influence, and augmentation. But compared to... the Divine ? The universe ?

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#57 - 2015-03-09 23:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Entry Five

Another personal note:

"Soulless."

What a concept.

I understand the basic theory: we died, in practical terms, the very first time we were ever cloned. Mostly at the start of our careers. Our souls passed on. What's left is ... just an echo, I guess.

In some sense, that's a comforting idea. Aria Jenneth wasn't ... an awful person when she died the first time, probably. Certainly, she'd never killed anyone, much less a family member. Maybe her (my) soul is long gone, moved on to some heaven or Naraka ... or passed on to another life.

It's not the most bizarre idea. I'd give that prize to the idea that the soul moves on with each and every clone's death. The idea that there's a sort of tenement house in Naraka for all the former Aria Jenneths seems frankly absurd.

But if cloned capsuleers are essentially hollow ghosts, what of me? Am I, therefore, a husk, some sad ... puppet? ... marionette? ... mannequin? ... who can no longer even remember a time when I had a soul?

It's ... ridiculous. Awful. Another idea out of a storybook.

There's no way I could ever believe such a thing.
U'tah Arareb
Doomheim
#58 - 2015-03-09 23:38:35 UTC  |  Edited by: U'tah Arareb
I wrestled with this idea myself when I awoke Capsuleer...

Had I just committed a murder?

The Chaplain present at my rebirth was very helpful to me, yes I had committed a sin, albeit a sin mostly against myself that I could choose to address as I saw fit.

Let us begin with "What is the soul"
Children are told that a soul is like an invisible part of you... something special but somehow fragile and immortal at the same time. This explanation works for children who will never become Capsuleers .. for us we need a better definition... to wit:

The soul is not something magical or aetherical , it is the pattern that rises in the mind as ones memories coax it into cohesion... neither hardware nor software it is the immeasurable essence of 'self' the literal Ghost in the machine of the mind.

If anything A capsuleer is not soulless so much as growing a new soul with each life... buffered and supported by that which is copyable , usually, being memories.


Hmm that was a bit poetic was it not?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#59 - 2015-03-10 20:55:12 UTC
- Why would the soul leave when the mind does not ?

- If someone dies without cloning, the soul goes to Heaven (or elsewhere). What if a brain scan has been kept somewhere and that person is revived at some point later ?

- If so, is continuous cloning keeping the soul, while discontinuous cloning is not ?

- Interesting corollary : could the soul be copied and duplicated in the cloning process ?


I do not find this way of reasoning very satisfying. All of those are half answers at best, and full of flaws and inconsistencies. It does, however, simply hint at an evidence : current scriptural interpretation of the soul has become obsolete and should be updated (something the TC and scholars might be doing right now).

I suppose that some parts of the Scriptures are yet to come to terms with quantum physics... Taken like it, the issue disappears by itself.
KaRa DaVuT
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-03-11 14:31:10 UTC
Anslo wrote:
We already talked. You know where to find me when you wanna find me.


I love this guy

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.