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POS for T2 Frigate production?

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Frederick Flintstoned
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-03-01 01:45:51 UTC
Hi all, quick question. I haven't produced much since shortly after Crius launched, but my coffers are starting to run low and I was thinking of going back to produce some ships. I have a stockpile of leftover inputs to use up to build some T2 Frigs I intend to use, but am confused on whether I am better off producing ships in a POS or in station? The production and research times of frigates is already so low that I am not sure if it's worth using a POS - I would have to log in multiple times a day to reset build and invention jobs due to short cycle times. Other than quicker production, would there be a reason to use a POS? Seems I'd be better off in a high-sec station
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-03-01 05:26:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
it's pretty easy to calculate if a pos is worth it or not


fuel cost/month
110m small
220m medium
440m large

a tower gives you an additional 2% material reduction for building, you also don't have to pay the NPC tax for building (building in a station = 110%, building in a pos = 100% of fees). let's assume that rounding weirdness and the reduced manufacturing fee cancel each other out and that a tower reduces your input cost by 2%

in order to profit from a tower, the fuel cost needs to be ~2% or less of your material cost over a given time.

that means you need to move

~5.5b / month in material for a small one
~11b / month in material for a medium one
~22b / month in material for a large one

in order to break even.

the production time bonus can be ignored here. it helps you to reach the sum faster, but it doesn't actually change it.

be aware that the 2% material reduction doesn't always apply fully. all jobs always require at least one of each ingredients. this is especially important if you want to build T2 things, pos mods or small rigs

there are other benefits such as improved refining, a compression array or faster invention times, but it's really difficult to put hard numbers on those, since so many things are involved (50% reduced invention time sounds awesome, but production time is only reduced by 25%, so inventing in a pos completely messes up the ratio of build and invention slots you need to keep your production running. that can be good or bad for you, but that again depends on your decryptor use, your source of components (self-made or from the market ?) and many other factors
Frederick Flintstoned
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-03-01 07:22:55 UTC
Thanks for the great reply, very appreciated!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2015-03-01 16:55:32 UTC
2% material reduction, not 3%

If your refining skills are maxed out, you may wish to get a refining array, as it increases ore yeild by 4%, compared to a regular highsec station. (52% base, rather than 50% base)

POS also increase your production by 33% (0.75 time multiplier) for assembly
They double your invention throughput (0.5 time multiplier)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-03-01 21:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
Ahh, Steve is right, I was super tired when typing this. Will update my post later tonight :)


edit: done
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#6 - 2015-03-02 09:50:14 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
2% material reduction, not 3%

If your refining skills are maxed out, you may wish to get a refining array, as it increases ore yeild by 4%, compared to a regular highsec station. (52% base, rather than 50% base)

POS also increase your production by 33% (0.75 time multiplier) for assembly
They double your invention throughput (0.5 time multiplier)


And they allow you to settle in systems without stations, where the industry indexes can be significantly lower.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#7 - 2015-03-03 17:59:59 UTC
Also keep in mind that small POSes are notoriously easy prey to those who search out such things. Running a medium or large may cut into your profit, but it definitely reduces your risk.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Aquilinus Naari
Naari LLC
#8 - 2015-03-07 17:32:51 UTC
You can further reduce your cost by making your own POS fuel. Don't know if others factored that in.
adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#9 - 2015-03-07 20:46:54 UTC
Aquilinus Naari wrote:
You can further reduce your cost by making your own POS fuel. Don't know if others factored that in.



that saves you nothing, anything you "save" you could have sold for profit instead, it also takes up production lines. How does nearly nobody understand opportunity cost?

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#10 - 2015-03-10 05:23:02 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Also keep in mind that small POSes are notoriously easy prey to those who search out such things. Running a medium or large may cut into your profit, but it definitely reduces your risk.


This is the primary reason that I do not maintain a POS.

In addition, there is all of the time spent and risk involved in transporting the raw materials to the POS and the products back out of it.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#11 - 2015-03-10 19:20:15 UTC
adriaans wrote:
Aquilinus Naari wrote:
You can further reduce your cost by making your own POS fuel. Don't know if others factored that in.



that saves you nothing, anything you "save" you could have sold for profit instead, it also takes up production lines. How does nearly nobody understand opportunity cost?

It does technically lower operating costs, as less liquid ISK is required, but it doesn't realistically increase profit because, as you indicated, opportunity costs kick in.

So in a way, you're both right. Lower costs don't always mean higher profits.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs