EVE General Discussion

If I go outside right now, stand on a street corner and yell "The Moon is made of cheese!", the only refutation required is "no, it's not."

Oh the irony of saying I avoided the question when you've done nothing but. But I will acquiesce.

The functionality of ISBoxer should be reinstated across the board because it offers ISBoxed fleet "X" no measurable advantage over an identical fleet with identical SP, identical fits, identical implants, identical experience, and identical fleet composition. I would even go so far to say it hinders a player's choice in ships, modules, and implants because of the inability to manually control each ship to use them to their fullest potential. Additionally, the ability of a non-boxed fleet in regards to applying and avoiding DPS because of their ability to manually pilot each ship in their fleet gives them an advantage because they optimize their transversal vs an opponents guns, they can mitigate their opponents transversal vs their own guns, they can burn out of range if the incoming DPS is too high, they can quickly switch DPS upon an FC's command, they can make snap judgements and decisions when the grid changes, and if one person accidentally trips on the router cable and pulls it out, they're only down one man instead of an entire fleet, to name a few. Furthermore, an ISBoxer is very susceptible to EWAR and capacitor warfare. If a regular person gets sensor damped, he can approach the target to reacquire a lock, while the ISBoxer cannot do such a thing as he can get distracted and wind up with a toon burning off grid and out of rep range, so he much accept the reduced DPS. If a player gets neuted, it's no major difficulty for him to ask for cap from the logis, while an ISBoxer cannot easily give cap to one of his characters because he has to keep the chain going. If a player gets jammed, he can alert his fleet and wait for the next cycle to miss to lock up the target, while an ISBoxer may not realize he's been jammed and will thus lose DPS.

As for the bomber boxers, corebloodbrother's incessant complaints about them stem from the time he took his battleship fleet to a planet, gave them a bio break, and then got bombed. Bombing a stationary target with at least half the fleet AFK, with no defensive bubbles up, and with no anti-bomber support, is an easy task for any bomber wing, including BRAVE's. At least two multibox bomber "FCs", for lack of a better term, have gone on the record stating that if they see defensive bubbles around a fleet, and enough ships that may be fit for anti-bomber duty, they will postpone or cancel their planned bombing run.

For those who wish to quote 6A3, I would like to say that just about every ISBoxer you talk to will give you his income / hour as a human being, not his income / toon / hour, which is what 6A3 has always been interpreted to mean by CCP developers and people in charge of such things. We have seen no evidence or statement from CCP that 6A3 is now being judged on a per-human basis. Even if it was, the earned income from a single officer spawn in nullsec, or ganking a freighter in highsec, or ganking a deadspace Golem, or the income of running C6 complete capital escalations on a good day, or even the income of those who "buy" 9-and-10/10s from players and run them would be much higher than an ISBoxer's possible earned income.

Now I ask you: Give me one reason why ISBoxer should have it's functionalities curtailed without resorting to fallacies of your own, especially not an appeal to authority ("CCP said so, so it is so").

Immediate fallacy number 1, I asked for no BS fallacies please: Comparing a prenerf ISboxed fleet to a non ISboxed fleet.

The exact same sentence rings true for the current status quo:

Postnerfed ISBoxed fleet "X" has no measurable advantage over an identical fleet with identical SP, identical fits, identical implants, identical experience, and identical fleet composition.

So what's the point in typing this. None. In fact it's a very questionable claim in the first place once you add in the human interaction part of the equation.

Let me rephrase this:

WHY WOULD YOU PREFER A PRENERF ISBOXED FLEET TO A POSTNERF ISBOXED FLEET?

And so he should, he's operating multiple ships. Comparing a ISBoxed fleet to a fleet of multiple players is a false comparison, as the second fleet requires multiple players. Compare your "measurably disadvantaged" post-nerf ISBox fleet to an alt-tab multiboxing fleet, running no "support" software and you still have a massive advantage which you shouldn't have.

When you spout bullshit in your second line I can't be bothered to read the rest of your 'argument' but just to humour your question I have several reasons which can be summarised in nice little bullet points:

- ISboxed fleets prenerf had an advantage in synchronisation that cannot be replicated by many individual players due to human error as well as network latencies. This synchronisation is on a input by input basis as well as in forming fleets to partake in activities without delay in waiting for other players.

- ISboxed fleets both post AND prenerf have the advantage of condensed layouts enabling easier UI setups than a manual multiboxer using multiple hardware displays and window tiling.

- ISboxed fleets remove an M from MMO.

I am not comparing a fleet of inept players to a perfect ISboxer - network latency between players can AND will mean that some players will not have their actions performed within the same server tick as each other.

Whether this comes from waiting for a voice command to tell them to undock or take a gate or align. None of this is synchronised as perfectly by a fleet of individuals. Likewise when arriving on grid there's a delay whilst a tagger/target broadcaster sets the initial targets and they update on the overviews of the other players which then has human error in being a perfect fleet member and actually locking the correct target instantly as soon as it's broadcast and then cycling their guns on it. Whilst an ISboxer has all his clients all sending commands pretty much instantaneously and all running through the same internet connection and so will have pretty much perfect synchronisation when they reach the server.

Even a fleet of perfect fleetmates with perfect discipline will be less synchronised than a prenerf ISboxed fleet...in an identical fleet, identical SP, etc etc...

Bullshit detected, i can hit with 10 fingers 10 different orders in 10 different boxes without even using isboxer.


dont blame the Porsche Driver cause he is faster than you in your crap vw polo. or do you blame the guy who is able to buy a better ship in eve than you and crushes you with it? no i dont think so.



MMO. Massively Multiplayer Online..

what M exactly got removed?

Yes you can also instantly form a fleet without waiting for any other people. Also if I remember rightly you have 120 keys available on your custom interface...so you can only perform 12 different actions across all clients simultaneously and only ones which have hotkeys enabled. Point still stands.

Multiplayer....want a dictionary?



NETWORK LATENCY AND HUMAN INTERFACE DELAYS FFS. THEY WILL NOT BE AS SYNCHRONISED AS ONE COMPUTER SENDING N COMMANDS SIMULTANEOUSLY THROUGH THE SAME DATA CONNECTION.

Wow it takes a wall of text for you to completely miss the point.

I use alts Shadow but I don't need or see any need to simultaneously control them with duplicated inputs.

WoW is a completely different kettle of fish EvE is niche for reasons beyond multiboxing otherwise why didn't it have 11 million players before the nerf when it effectively DID have unlimited multiboxing?

Yes, technically you have an advantage over another player (if we want to get very technical on the EULA wording).