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Scylla general feedback thread

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Author
Cartras Vokan
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#41 - 2015-02-28 22:37:54 UTC
I get the message about using a pre-release launcher when I try to start SISI, I click OK, and it just crashes with an error. I click cancel and it just sits there not doing anything.

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: launcher.exe_unknown
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 49180193
Fault Module Name: StackHash_0a9e
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 00000000
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 04189602
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 0a9e
Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3: 0a9e
Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-02-28 22:54:45 UTC
Went onto Sisi to take a look at the new icons specifically and I agree with the ideas that were mentioned elsewhere. The icons look good, but the 4 'dots' around each target in space makes the average mission room look very cluttered and chaotic. What is the point of those 4 dots?

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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#43 - 2015-03-01 04:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrified
Testing the NPE.

Aura pops up the first time the pilot loads into the game, however, if show all opportunities is clicked, Aura declined, or the game closed, Aura never comes back.

I did a superficial search to see if I could get Aura back and I could not. While this is not game-breakig, if, as a new player, I want Aura to hold my hand, I can't get her to once she is gone. Please consider re-including her again as a default icon for new characters in the neocom until the player choses to remove her from it.

- she appears to come back, from time to time, but briefly.

- the NPC icons in Opportunities do not match the new icons.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#44 - 2015-03-01 06:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
The Mac client patched and launched without a hitch. I really like the new pulsing blue load bar when the client launches. Loading the initial resources and preparing took a really long time - longer than downloading and updating the client. There was also a spinning arrow in the upper left corner by the Neocon, and performance was not as 'snappy' as previous.

Edit: I see from the updated OP that there are a few Mac-releated issues, so I'll chalk these and other anomalies (missing new icons) up to these problems.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#45 - 2015-03-01 09:40:44 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Went onto Sisi to take a look at the new icons specifically and I agree with the ideas that were mentioned elsewhere. The icons look good, but the 4 'dots' around each target in space makes the average mission room look very cluttered and chaotic. What is the point of those 4 dots?

Means targets in your lock target range
Luscius Uta
#46 - 2015-03-01 10:27:01 UTC
I have a problem with sounds getting cut off or being delayed by 10-30 seconds, regardless of DX version I'm using. Also, EVERYTIME I start the launcher it gives me a "You are using a pre-release version" dialog, is this normal?

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#47 - 2015-03-01 16:14:30 UTC
So there have been several valid points made in the icon feedback thread, none of which have been responded to or addressed despite dev claims beforehand to stay on top of them. Yes the base icon file and image itself may look good, but when used in the overview, compressed, and then possibly scaled down to 90%, they do not function anymore. I will say I do like the appearance of the ISIS icons, though I've never actually felt the urge to use or browse ISIS do to other issues (its lack of scalability, that I would need to close or minimize every other window I have on screen for it to even be partially useful, and its rather limiting ways to search for or look at ships of say different races or classes).

Please address the more valid concerns about these new icons:

1) 27 different icons for drones? All most of us need to see is that there is a drone on field, if we really care to know what kind we will mouse over it or select it (or just turn drones on in our overview list, because clicking on fast moving warriors is a pita) and read what it written in the "Type" or "Name" field. At very most we might want to know if it is a dmg or logi or ewar drone, at best... but most of the time that too can be determined by seeing the armor rep beam or the target painter in space itself. We sure as heck don't need to see what size of drone, as that too can be easily garnered by how fast it is moving or a simple mouse over.

2) POS sentry guns/station guns? Why the change from a very clear and unique current icon to something that is terribad? Nothing else is using the current sentry/station gun icon that I can think of is it? What the heck is the square "c" supposed to be or represent?

3) Why do labs retain the icon looking like a factory, and factories look like, eh, maybe a power coil of some sort?

4) The lack of clear and distinct differences between ship icons. When the difference is only 2 pixels variance between 2 slightly differently slanted/angled triangles it is not very easy to see. Please make these icons unique and discernible. For example see Homeworld, it worked extremely well, and that was near 20 years ago, and it still works. Infact they are remastering the game and guess what, they are using the same icons, because they worked that well.

5) The overview icons should be a quick guide to basic info, not a place to shove more info and therefore make it more confusing and cluttered. We only need to get the most basic info from a icon in the overview, why, because there are numerous other places in the overview for the more detailed info, like mouse over, selecting it, or looking at one of several columns with that info already there.

6) Anyhoo, further I've noticed that in cases of player ships, quite a lot of the time from a distance I can identify the ship hull through the bracket (because it is open and not a solid block) whereas the new icons in a lot of cases completely block out the ship itself (or at least a large portion of it), therefore sending me to the overview list to get the information I would have otherwise been able to gather from looking in space.

7) The current system groups several types together, and it makes sense. Frigs/dessies are one group, and that is good, any weapon system you would apply to a frig will apply at least as good to any dessie. They also use the same class of weapons and mods in most cases. Same for cruisers/battlecruisers, they currently share an icon and the share the same weapons class as well as any weapon you would choose to use against a cruiser would likely work better against a battlecruiser. We really don't need much more than Small (frig/dessie), Med (cruiser/battlecruiser), Large (battleship), and XL (caps). The same weapons and tactics apply to and from each of these groups as a whole, that is the core for info that people need when they see an icon. More detailed info on what specific type/role/threat that specific ship is can be more easily determined by the info listed in the Type or Name columns plain and simple.

8) Why the different icons for mining frigate and frigate? It is still just a frigate and as we all know isn't restricted to just mining. Like some of the frigates are occasionally for mining, the mining frigate is occasionally used for not mining. But then distinction between the various industrial ships. Or for that matter any other ships with varying roles like neut/ewar/logi etc. It makes next to no sense for creating countless variations on these icons in the aim of cleaning up and simplifying the UI. Unless you are trying to make it more complex and filled with useless/redundant information, then it makes perfect sense.

This is somewhat counter to having an improved UI, it should at the very least maintain the current information level, be better looking, and quicker to distinguish. But this is not, it tries to give way too much information (ie 27 separate drone icons), is not better looking, and takes more time to distinguish due to insignificant differences. Pretty icons created at 80x80 don't scale well below 20x20 at all. Anyone remember the old turret icon debacle of attempting for more realistic detail? Simple is better.

If they want to go that far with making so many different icons, they need to go all the way with all the ships, for instance having markers for T2 or T3, faction, ship roles (neut/ewar/tackle/logi/links). Or in the case of sentry guns, the missile launchers are separated from the other 3 types of guns, why? Why not make each of the 4 types have their own icon too? Not that I want that to happen, it would be even more clutter and information that I already have available in a better more easily recognizable form somewhere else.

I too am looking forward to the next mass test so we can all say "told you so". Working on a post with example images.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#48 - 2015-03-01 19:26:09 UTC
Summarizing the other thread here (since there hasn't been any real response from devs there either, figured I would help make sure these are covered) for ease of finding and as a refresher for devs if they miss the posts buried earlier on... and lots of picture examples.

1) Icons like this, nice simple, clearly identifiable and contain all the info you really need in the over (nearly any other piece of info you would need would be already available in the overview list):

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1AmgaXrxCn4BXMC6200G6TiQpZhiDEn2-PeA7zOwanRg/edit

Via Thoirdhealbhach. Player and NPC ships don't need for each and every ship type and variation to be displayed as a separate icon.

Or just plain using different shapes entirely (via Tippia): http://eve.beyondreality.se/pics/OverviewIcons.png.

2) They just need to be simplified, kinda like this http://imgur.com/HqClpnt example by Alexis Nightwish, but maybe more generic like dps, ewar, and logi separations only (no size) as to avoid the having 27 different icons for variations on drones to keep track of.

http://i.imgur.com/pVz8aq0.png. Yeah, we don't need all that... we just need to see that it is a drone and where it is at. If we decide we need to care about what kind of drone it is, guess what... there are 2 columns already in the overview for that.

3) For starters they all look to be right-justified instead of center. They are also just too similar to each other, not enough difference once the icons are scaled from their original artwork size to the overview size. Example http://i.imgur.com/Lvb79Uy.png. Are the wrecks also going to be split into a dozen different size variations as well? Currently the wreck sizes are S, M, and L. Regardless we need to keep it simple, we only need to know basic info on the overview, like is it a small, medium, large, or extra large ship. Any further decisions are not based on the ship hull but rather the exact ship itself.

Or as Geanos suggested another simplistic model, WoT... http://newnetwork.cc/images/maptactic/wot-icon-pack-ejs.jpg, we only really need a handful of ship class icons, S M L XL, so it shouldn't be terribly difficult to put together something like this. The understood that the icons for the tank class didn't need to represent the size or type of tank, and the didn't try to make it look like a tank.

4) When considering the overview's information, one thing that stands out as different is both the Name and Type columns for NPCs just repeat the name of the NPC, it would probably be more helpful and give you somewhere to put that distinct info you want to give by listing the ship hull class information there instead? If you are really bent on making more icons than necessary, then maybe changing the duplicated info displayed in those columns would help those of us out that want to be able to more quickly differentiate between hulls.

Otherwise just use 4 main class icons and make them amazing and well designed for the current overview.

And here is the Homeworld style UI that was amazing and worked very well http://i.imgur.com/Awa155I.jpg. Now its not the full on fleet in parade formation so you can see everything lined up next to the rest, but it should give you a general idea how simple and yet so great it was.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#49 - 2015-03-01 21:29:38 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
I have a problem with sounds getting cut off or being delayed by 10-30 seconds, regardless of DX version I'm using. Also, EVERYTIME I start the launcher it gives me a "You are using a pre-release version" dialog, is this normal?


Luscius, try opening the launcher, open settings -> clear client cahce files -> log on.

That fixed most of the things for me.

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This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#50 - 2015-03-01 21:54:30 UTC
can clear cache manually by deleting files? which one since i cant even start sisi launcher
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#51 - 2015-03-02 16:00:31 UTC
Amak Boma wrote:
can clear cache manually by deleting files? which one since i cant even start sisi launcher


It will look something like this:

C:\Users\yourWindowsUsername\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_eve-sisi_singularity\ <- Win 7/8

and the cache folder, not the backups or the setting folders (should be ovious),

On mac and Linux the folders are different, since they use wine and an older folder order.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#52 - 2015-03-02 23:41:30 UTC
deleted cache . launcher still crash with launcher.exe error. launcher is 2.2 865769 it crash before it even load , so have no any access , its just error on start-up

what next.


checked launcher txt file and found 2015-03-03 00:39:59,059 - root - selfUpdate - INFO - Running pre-release version! Server: 2.2.859950 this: 2.2.865769
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2015-03-03 12:20:05 UTC
Amak Boma wrote:
deleted cache . launcher still crash with launcher.exe error. launcher is 2.2 865769 it crash before it even load , so have no any access , its just error on start-up

what next.


checked launcher txt file and found 2015-03-03 00:39:59,059 - root - selfUpdate - INFO - Running pre-release version! Server: 2.2.859950 this: 2.2.865769


Which Windows version do you have?

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#54 - 2015-03-03 16:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Amak Boma
windows vista 32bit . 4gb ram cor2 quad cpu 2.33ghz asus main board. looks like the launcher update is corrupted ebcause is downloading launcher update that destroy your client

i did couple of attempts sush

copying tq copy to make new sisi copy , then delete old sisi copy
now let sisi update the launcher current version 2.2 859950
launcher quits after update so i re launch it its updated to 2.2 865769
CTD error , i delete launcher
downloaded launcher from this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=409107&find=unread
the GM link launcher is 2.2 859950 , launcher after start is updating to 2.2 865769 .
applied t he launcher to sisi location
started launcher and still asks to update the launcher
at update ends , launcher quits so i start it again then it crash so im in dead point.

i tried so far
- formatting hard disk and put clean copy of sisi there to repeat all steps
- removed manually cache because cannot access launcher, launcher still not works
- used the launcher link provided from GM but didnt work


TLDR
1. deleted old sisi client as was broken
2. copied tq to make new sisi client
3. launching sisi starts updating launcher from 2.2 859950 to 2.2 865769
4. launcher after updating to2.2 865769 stops working, and causing crashes.
5. deleted launcher folder from sisi copy
6. downloaded and installed launcher from GM post
7. downloaded launcher is updating to this crashing version 2.2 865769
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-03-04 06:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuttomenui II
Amak Boma wrote:
windows vista 32bit . 4gb ram cor2 quad cpu 2.33ghz asus main board. looks like the launcher update is corrupted ebcause is downloading launcher update that destroy your client

i did couple of attempts sush

copying tq copy to make new sisi copy , then delete old sisi copy
now let sisi update the launcher current version 2.2 859950
launcher quits after update so i re launch it its updated to 2.2 865769
CTD error , i delete launcher
downloaded launcher from this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=409107&find=unread
the GM link launcher is 2.2 859950 , launcher after start is updating to 2.2 865769 .
applied t he launcher to sisi location
started launcher and still asks to update the launcher
at update ends , launcher quits so i start it again then it crash so im in dead point.

i tried so far
- formatting hard disk and put clean copy of sisi there to repeat all steps
- removed manually cache because cannot access launcher, launcher still not works
- used the launcher link provided from GM but didnt work


TLDR
1. deleted old sisi client as was broken
2. copied tq to make new sisi client
3. launching sisi starts updating launcher from 2.2 859950 to 2.2 865769
4. launcher after updating to2.2 865769 stops working, and causing crashes.
5. deleted launcher folder from sisi copy
6. downloaded and installed launcher from GM post
7. downloaded launcher is updating to this crashing version 2.2 865769


Have you tried selecting cancel when you get this?: http://eve-files.com/dl/272658

Selecting cancel will allow the launcher to run but it won't do anything and the status bar below will remain grey. But you will be able to change settings. (maybe)

So try this following procedure that I have come to through my own attempts and eventual success at dealing with this issue.

Manually delete the cache files that correspond to your test install located here: C:\Users\yourWindowsUsername\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_eve-sisi_singularity\ <- Win 7/8

Manual deletion won't fix the crashing but it is best to get rid of it in my opinion, and then use the clear cache in the launcher settings.

(If my assumptions hold and your able to select 'cancel' at this dialogue http://eve-files.com/dl/272658 ) Go into the launcher settings and under the 'Advanced' tab press the 'Clear' button for 'Clear all cached data' http://eve-files.com/dl/272724.

You will get a message asking if you would like to restart the launcher for the action to take effect you can do so now, or if you wish to change the location of the shared cache folder and select to download all resources you can make those selections and then close and relaunch the launcher.

After the launcher re-opens select 'OK' at this dialogue: http://eve-files.com/dl/272658
And if it doesn't crash then that will no longer be an issue. Now just let it download the res update stuff, if it hangs at 100% just let it keep running and eventually it should do something. In my case I have a custom location set for the shared cache folder and I also chose to download all resources. So after it downloaded the res update it then downloaded a larger 12 gb res update. And now my SISI launcher says it is ready.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#56 - 2015-03-04 11:01:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Amak Boma
well managed to get launcher running . had to add the launcher admin privilleges and then stopped crashing. yes
RUN LAUNCHER AS ADMIN it solves crashing.
so i deleted cache manually and then started launcher . shooted the cancel button and for sure shooted clear all cache, launcher restarted.
well problem is that i have limited data transfer cannot download 12GB. is there way to bypass it? or i have it to download anyway?

encountered another problem. it stops at 5.7% on downlaoding updates to res cache . it wont go further than 5.7% .

checked network monitor and i see that there is no any data transfer so it has just hang up. .
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2015-03-04 12:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuttomenui II
Amak Boma wrote:
well managed to get launcher running . had to add the launcher admin privilleges and then stopped crashing. yes
RUN LAUNCHER AS ADMIN it solves crashing.
so i deleted cache manually and then started launcher . shooted the cancel button and for sure shooted clear all cache, launcher restarted.
well problem is that i have limited data transfer cannot download 12GB. is there way to bypass it? or i have it to download anyway?

encountered another problem. it stops at 5.7% on downlaoding updates to res cache . it wont go further than 5.7% .

checked network monitor and i see that there is no any data transfer so it has just hang up. .


Well maybe it working for me was some kind of fluke. The moment it started working for me was when I went into the launcher settings again while it was stuck and cleared the cache again, this caused the launcher to hang so I forced it closed. And when I relaunched it did a check for the downloaded res files and then started where it left off.

Although mine was stuck at 100%. The work around for the stuck download is to delete the res_temp folder in the shared cache folder. I found this didn't seem to work for me, but I was always getting it stuck at 100%. And because I thought it was froze at 100% (which it might have been) I tried deleting everything in the shared cache folder and letting it try again. So deleting everything in the shared cache folder is something you could try.

Yeah 12gb is kind of crazy I am unsure how to get around that. I just left the launcher running and went to do something else.
You could leave the option in the launcher settings off for the 'Download all the resource files' and let it do the download on demand.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#58 - 2015-03-04 14:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Amak Boma
didnt work. after i clear cache , launcher closes and i relaunch it and statting from scratch . left it run for 4 hours and was still at 5.7% no any data transfer ongoing and outgoing so it was stuck

after complete removal of singularity and redoing the copy . turning it to sisi copy its stuck at 100% now . had evrything removed. but it gets stuck at 100% now. its funny now.

any solution now?

new problem.. cannot close launcher it hangs up and have to alt-ctrl-delete to kill the launcher task . what else this new launcher ffeaturing?

\==================
laucher after several painful restarts and cache cleanings finally works
but game is broken . cannot start it anmore i just get blank window and notthing happens
luna1102
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-03-04 20:18:54 UTC
Amak Boma wrote:
didnt work. after i clear cache , launcher closes and i relaunch it and statting from scratch . left it run for 4 hours and was still at 5.7% no any data transfer ongoing and outgoing so it was stuck
...

same here, had also some magic numbers. mostly stuck on 0.2% / 157kB and cache is still 12 GB in size. But the game cannot be launched. The tasks takes one core at 100% without any disk or network access. Just sometimes 0.1 Sad

At the end I had setup a repair on the correct build to get it run without the total new broken launcher.

Then I got a "black screen" for about 30 seconds before it worked ... funny P


The big problem here is, the user is not able to see any progress during the work of the launcher. Just a little graphic or some points or a few debug messages in a window (during the testing).
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#60 - 2015-03-04 22:15:13 UTC
well somehow didnt have 12gb patch . i just installed DoD in sisi. and managed to get it to work . game loads still slow as it gather the data, so the 12gb will be acquired with time i think