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CCP thank you for our amazing new T3 destroyers, but...
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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#41 - 2015-03-03 10:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Liafcipe9000
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Game over.

you may now transfer the entirety of all your asset hangars to be in my possession, and proceed to phase 2 of ragequit; unsubscribing.

E: page snipe.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-03-03 10:40:09 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Game over.

you may now transfer the entirety of all your asset hangars to be in my possession, and proceed to phase 2 of ragequit; unsubscribing.

E: page snipe.


Don't be silly.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Varathius
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2015-03-03 10:45:36 UTC
as long as pirate frigs keep being this overpowered (significantly overpowered that is) comparing to their faction and t1 counterparts, T3 destroyers don't bother me, in fact, I welcome them. I don't fly one myself but I like the idea that in this game destroyers are finally capable to go against cruisers and pirate frigates solo in terms of having same purpose fits.


Valkin Mordirc
#44 - 2015-03-03 11:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Scipio Artelius wrote:
As a class of ship, the T3 Destroyers have pretty much taken the top spots on zkillboard now, sitting constantly at #1 and #3:

http://puu.sh/gg9u1/09b82b1cb1.jpg (7 day stats)

Before the Svipul was released, the Confessor was sitting even wiith the Ishtar for kills (with the Sabre constantly sitting in #1), but now with two of the T3 Destroyers out, they are pretty much leading the way. Total kills for those two ships constantly sits at between 17000 - 18000 per week.

Whether that is purely because they are so popular, or because they are so strong; I don't know but it's most likely a combination.




It's probably because it's a brand new ship. And everybody wants to use them, and they don't take long to train into.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66946/1/STEVE_7.png

Also if you look at the graph CCP posted on Dev blog, it shows that a lot of ships including the one the Dessie can counter are still in more use than itself.

On the topic of them being op,

Dessies are intended to take out frigates, why should the new ones suddenly be nerfed for doing what it's T1 Variants are suppose to do? You can't look at a ships initial hull and say, HEY THIS MORE ADVANCED HULL IS DOING BETTER THAN THE T1 VERSION. IT'S OP!!!!

That's not fair. Dessies, are meant to be a counter to Frigs. Since they kill AF's and such easily, then I'd say they are doing just fine. But if you look through the losses you still see people losing well-fit confessors to single AF's which means it's still possible for a AF to have a fighting chance.


I'd say give it some more time, so people can figure out the best fits for them, and then let CCP adjust accordingly, Tweaks maybe needed. But not Nerfs
#DeleteTheWeak
Anthar Thebess
#45 - 2015-03-03 11:09:41 UTC
Those ships simply killed all T2 assalut frigates and every thing below.
Almost similar price , few times in performance.

They simply outperform every single ship in their class, and even some above them.
Some change must be done , as they are just ... OP.

Low sensor strength ? Very low - so they can be easily countered by any jammer?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2015-03-03 13:01:18 UTC
On zkillboard svipul has the most effective kill/loses last week ratio.

Maybe the emphasis put on speed tanking is starting to reach epic proportions?

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Semideus Magnatus
BLUE-EYES
#47 - 2015-03-03 13:08:02 UTC
How about T3 Frigates to match the T3 Destroyers ?
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#48 - 2015-03-03 15:45:01 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I will agree with one thing - they feel a little cheap for what they are. I just took a look at current prices and I'll say this much, I felt more comfortable with their cost when they were around the 150-200 mil mark.


that's the power of our industry, people have their legion of alts that produce unrealistic numbers of starships lead to crashing prices. buying out the market isn't a solution nor is killing miners due to the minerals in the market. The best thing is to find the builders and wait for their shipping times and jump them.
even that doesn't seem to be enough.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2015-03-03 15:49:28 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Having used both the svipul and confessor in solo and gang pvp in both lowsec and w-space. Here is what I and my corp found:

They're epic.

Probably a bit too epic.

None of us will ever fly any other frigate sized ship into combat ever again, since:

no frigate can stand up to them
no two frigates working together can stand up to them
The svipul out-performs interceptors (at intercepting)
they out-dps most cruisers (taking into account small weapon tracking, make that *all* cruisers)
They can be dual propped, dual repped, armour tanked, shield tanked, bricks or (toughened) glass cannons.
Their cap is strong enough to easily support perma-MWD.
They can insta-warp by changing from speed to defence mode 1/3 of the way through alignment.
They have an enormous cargo hold for charges, loot, MTUs, mobile depots so make perfect wormhole loot delivery vans while being able to transform themselves from short range to long range fit and from pve to pvp fit, mid-mission without any penalties to performance.

They do not have a single weakness. There is not even the punishment of skill loss for losing one. The skill loss which incidentally is arguably the *only* reason that eve is not called "TenguQuest".

Oh, and once you've bought the fittings, a fully-fitted tactical destroyer is approximately the same price as any other T2 frigate, which it will easily mince.

Does the design team have any thoughts on this?

I mean, I know the community will instantly reply, "OiGetYourDirtyHandsOffMyNewShineyPwnMobile!!!", but I imagine the dev team will have a view on eve combat that is a little less myopic than that of us capsuleers?

I hope so anyway...


Its a destroyer's JOB to own frigates.

Having said that, I lost a svipul yesterday. They arent overpowered. They munch frigates, and die to cruisers.
Winters Chill
Unitas Incorporated
#50 - 2015-03-03 15:58:42 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


I'm not sure that drones per-se are ridiculously overpowered.



Rediculiously annoying maybe would be better.

Its a shame auto targetting systems are useless. If they got buffed, they might make an interesting out of the box counter to drones, for turret boats.
Davir Sometaww
Spooks On Pings
SE7EN-SINS
#51 - 2015-03-03 22:20:43 UTC
They are insane.
Niobe Song
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-03-04 05:07:41 UTC
I am curious as to why the OP doesn't think the T3 Destroyer should be able to take down T1 or T2 frigates?
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-03-04 06:44:37 UTC
Niobe Song wrote:
I am curious as to why the OP doesn't think the T3 Destroyer should be able to take down T1 or T2 frigates?


If you truly are curious about this then I have not been clear about my meaning in my initial post.

I was under the impression that the gist of the post highlights the fact that the T3 destroyers, by virtue of their high performance and low cost, make frigates obsolete overnight. It's not that a T3 destroyer can beat a T2 frigate - it's that there is no reason to choose a T2 frigate anymore.

Now when I say "no reason", I do of course accept that there are rare occasions when a T2 frigate may be a better choice. Here are some scenarios and the ships choices that it seems to me are the right choices:

You want to attack a frigate:
Take a T3 destroyer. They're faster, stronger, more nimble.
The only scenario where you'd choose a frigate is when your target is in a Novice FW site.

You want to attack a destroyer:
Definitely take a T3 destroyer

You want a shuttle to get past interdiction bubbles:
take an interceptor

You want to actually intercept things, bubbles or not:
take a Svipul

You want to use long range webs/points/ecm and for some reason you can't take a recon or T3:
take an electronic attack ship. Watch out for incoming Svipuls burning for you at 5k/s

You want a fast-locking ship that can apply excellent dps and be easily kept alive despite withering lowsec gate fire:
T3 destroyer!

I could go on...

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2015-03-04 12:20:05 UTC

From world of cruisers to world of dessies! Impatiently waiting for t3 rookie ships!

It is a destroyers job to deal with frigates, but very soon all small gang pvp will be t3 dessie exclusive, just sayin'. A t3 des should not out run t2 frigates but its guns should be effective at tracking them.

Maybe some future game patches should consider finally consider a tracking mods re-balance or at least introduce a speed limit for each class of ship that can't be further improved?

There are already a many forms of ewar that effectively disrupt it (tracking) even further but the most effective is speed tanking because not applied dps exists only on paper. This created already too many RISK FREE situations where speed tankers need to worry not about anything than bumping a structure or an eventual dual web and now there is a new dedicated ship class that pushes it even further.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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