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Breaking EULA
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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2011-12-22 11:11:17 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
1.) Buy a GTC or PLEX with RL money (eighter use CCP, Eve-codes[dot]com or Shatteredcrystal[dot]com)
2.) Sell the PLEX (or 2 PLEX if you used GTC) on the Timecode Bazaar.
3.) Repeat if you are still in debt.

On the neg. wallet:

Good job CCP. I'm totally against petitioning and then get that deuce his wallet back to 0 for 1 reason only.
The OP should have used the proper way to make ISK if he wanted more (buying GTC / PLEX from official websites).

By using RMT he knew he was violating the EULA and he took the risk and lost.
So no need to help him out, it was all his own choice and he should live with the consequences.

Helping him out would be like giving a bank robber the money he stole back after he served his jail time. Punishments are there for a reason, to let people know they did the wrong thing and to make sure they will NEVER do that again.



I fail to understand this post

Part 1 - Buy some isk it'll sort your problem out

Part 2 - You bought isk ! your scum of the earth and deserve everything you get.

What?



The first 3 points are a way to get the OP out of his negative wallet using the a legit source of ISK by using RL money

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-12-22 11:16:54 UTC
Lesson learned : Next time don't RMT

At least I hope you learned that lesson.

Oh well, the isk buyer tears that are drowning this thread are delicious.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#43 - 2011-12-22 11:17:17 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
1.) Buy a GTC or PLEX with RL money (eighter use CCP, Eve-codes[dot]com or Shatteredcrystal[dot]com)
2.) Sell the PLEX (or 2 PLEX if you used GTC) on the Timecode Bazaar.
3.) Repeat if you are still in debt.

On the neg. wallet:

Good job CCP. I'm totally against petitioning and then get that deuce his wallet back to 0 for 1 reason only.
The OP should have used the proper way to make ISK if he wanted more (buying GTC / PLEX from official websites).

By using RMT he knew he was violating the EULA and he took the risk and lost.
So no need to help him out, it was all his own choice and he should live with the consequences.

Helping him out would be like giving a bank robber the money he stole back after he served his jail time. Punishments are there for a reason, to let people know they did the wrong thing and to make sure they will NEVER do that again.



I fail to understand this post

Part 1 - Buy some isk it'll sort your problem out

Part 2 - You bought isk ! your scum of the earth and deserve everything you get.

What?



The first 3 points are a way to get the OP out of his negative wallet using the a legit source of ISK by using RL money


Oh I understood I just found it ironic that you then went on to rant about how people who buy isk using RL money should be punished.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Renturu
In Glorium et Decorum
#44 - 2011-12-22 11:20:18 UTC
If you need to sell something to a corp mate or a bud... In hangar trade for isk. no tax or brokerage fee there and it will knock down your "debt."

By the orders of PlunderBunny: ☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2011-12-22 11:31:32 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
A treatment that arbitarily further punishes some but not others, not a great justice system.
…except that it's not arbitrary. The only way not to go into negative wallet is to not spend the ISK, at which point there was no point in buying it to begin with.

It “further” punishes people who spend ISK they have no right to have… except that there is no “further” about it: negative wallet is what happens to everyone who does that. Everyone gets the same treatment. Again: you choose to go into negative wallet. You do this after you choose to break the rules. There is nothing random or arbitrary about any of it unless you have a complete lack of control over your own actions.

Oh, and if you can't see the difference between trading PLEX and giving real money to a third party to illegitimately gain access to stuff owned by CCP, then you need to stop for a bit, sit down, and actually think.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-12-22 11:32:15 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
1.) Buy a GTC or PLEX with RL money (eighter use CCP, Eve-codes[dot]com or Shatteredcrystal[dot]com)
2.) Sell the PLEX (or 2 PLEX if you used GTC) on the Timecode Bazaar.
3.) Repeat if you are still in debt.

On the neg. wallet:

Good job CCP. I'm totally against petitioning and then get that deuce his wallet back to 0 for 1 reason only.
The OP should have used the proper way to make ISK if he wanted more (buying GTC / PLEX from official websites).

By using RMT he knew he was violating the EULA and he took the risk and lost.
So no need to help him out, it was all his own choice and he should live with the consequences.

Helping him out would be like giving a bank robber the money he stole back after he served his jail time. Punishments are there for a reason, to let people know they did the wrong thing and to make sure they will NEVER do that again.



I fail to understand this post

Part 1 - Buy some isk it'll sort your problem out

Part 2 - You bought isk ! your scum of the earth and deserve everything you get.

What?



The first 3 points are a way to get the OP out of his negative wallet using the a legit source of ISK by using RL money


Oh I understood I just found it ironic that you then went on to rant about how people who buy isk using RL money should be punished.


I'm not against people who use RL money to buy ISK. I'm against people who use the RMT part of it that isn't allowed by the EULA and then come to the forums to whine about them being punished about something they did and knew it was against the rules you accepted.

If you want to use RL money as a source of ISK just do it through the proper channels that CCP has said are legit.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
malaire
#47 - 2011-12-22 11:33:16 UTC
Renturu wrote:
If you need to sell something to a corp mate or a bud... In hangar trade for isk. no tax or brokerage fee there and it will knock down your "debt."

That might work - or might not. I have helped few players in this situation by buying their PLEX via station trade. Two times it has worked, once it didn't work - we got message about not being able to do station trades with negative wallet. (That was several months ago and might've just been a bug.)

Of course if you find someone who trusts you, he can give you ISK first and then you can give PLEX or whatever to him.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#48 - 2011-12-22 11:57:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
A treatment that arbitarily further punishes some but not others, not a great justice system.
…except that it's not arbitrary. The only way not to go into negative wallet is to not spend the ISK, at which point there was no point in buying it to begin with.

It “further” punishes people who spend ISK they have no right to have… except that there is no “further” about it: negative wallet is what happens to everyone who does that. Everyone gets the same treatment. Again: you choose to go into negative wallet. You do this after you choose to break the rules. There is nothing random or arbitrary about any of it unless you have a complete lack of control over your own actions.

Oh, and if you can't see the difference between trading PLEX and giving real money to a third party to illegitimately gain access to stuff owned by CCP, then you need to stop for a bit, sit down, and actually think.



No it doesn't JUST depend on wether you spent the isk or not, as I said there is a lot of factors involved, how much you had to start with, how much you earn, how much you can make of the isk you bought, when you get caught. It's not just Spend bought isk = automatic negative wallet.

And what are you on about 'illegitamatley gain access' it's not like CCP got hacked and the isk suddenly appeared, someone somewhere made that isk ingame. Therefore CCP where reinbursed in the usual way for it.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#49 - 2011-12-22 12:02:26 UTC
I think that the OP should RMT more isk to get out of the hole.

Only good things can come from this.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2011-12-22 12:28:08 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
No it doesn't JUST depend on wether you spent the isk or not
Yes it does. If you had the ISK to buy whatever it is you wanted to buy, then 1) you didn't need to RMT, and 2) you can still buy it once the illegitimate ISK is removed. In order to get into negative wallet, you would have had to have less legit ISK available than the amount you spent (hence why you RMTed) and then you would have had to spend that illicit ISK. If you didn't you wouldn't arrive at a negative wallet.

Oh, and both those steps are your choices, so again, you decide to go into negative wallet. It is about as far from arbitrary as it can ever get.
Quote:
And what are you on about 'illegitamatley gain access'
You bought something that wasn't yours from someone who didn't own it either. You illegitimately gained access to ISK that you shouldn't have.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-12-22 12:35:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
No it doesn't JUST depend on wether you spent the isk or not
Yes it does. If you had the ISK to buy whatever it is you wanted to buy, then 1) you didn't need to RMT, and 2) you can still buy it once the illegitimate ISK is removed. In order to get into negative wallet, you would have had to have less legit ISK available than the amount you spent (hence why you RMTed) and then you would have had to spend that illicit ISK. If you didn't you wouldn't arrive at a negative wallet.

Oh, and both those steps are your choices, so again, you decide to go into negative wallet. It is about as far from arbitrary as it can ever get.
Quote:
And what are you on about 'illegitamatley gain access'
You bought something that wasn't yours from someone who didn't own it either. You illegitimately gained access to ISK that you shouldn't have.


+1

The OP clearly used RMT to buy something he didn't have the funds for. So buy buying those ISK he bought something he shouldn't have owned in the first part.

If people get ISK from RMT and then have it removed by CCP and still have a positive wallet, why would they used RMT then. This clearly means they have the means to make ISK the proper way.

Also if you look at the OP's profile, she is just 5months old. So like many many pilots (including myself when I started) she wanted to fly a ship which is way to expensive for her at this time.

Again, I'm not against using real money to fund your ships if you can afford it. I'm against stupid (sorry if people feel offended) people who CHOOSE to disobey the rules and buy ISK from non legit third parties and then whine when CCP punish you as they have stated in the rules that you should have read before you accepted them.

People who don't like that shouldn't play EVE in the first time, it's a harsh world where your actions have consequences and you should only fly stuff you can actually afford to buy legit.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#52 - 2011-12-22 13:10:12 UTC
Let me try give you an example then

You and me buy 1 bill isk

You spend 500 mil on shiney ship and manage to make 250 M missioning before your caught. 750-1000= -250 in the negative + 1 shiney ship you can't sell.

Now I take my billion isk, invest it on the market and make 250M. 1250-1000 = 250 M left in my wallet

So I fly of happy with 1/4 Billion isk in my pocket, you most likely have to biomass yourself.

Random and arbitary.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#53 - 2011-12-22 13:14:01 UTC
Meanwhile back on topic.

OP you still haven't made it entirely clear what you spent 2 billion on and if you have any assests to show for it.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#54 - 2011-12-22 13:43:45 UTC
What time zone do you play in?

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#55 - 2011-12-22 13:48:21 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
So I fly of happy with 1/4 Billion isk in my pocket, you most likely have to biomass yourself.

Random and arbitary.
…except that you still haven't spent that illegit ISK, and therefore isn't in the red, and except that you didn't need that ISK to begin with in order to play the market, oh, and except that biomassing isn't even remotely necessary for the other character.

So no, it is neither random nor arbitrary: the same thing happens to both people and their choices, not random chance, decides what will happen.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#56 - 2011-12-22 14:02:54 UTC
Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank.

Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#57 - 2011-12-22 14:11:22 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank.

Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right.

It seems you are asking for punishments to be arbitrary. As it is, they are equal.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#58 - 2011-12-22 14:14:35 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank.

Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right.

It seems you are asking for punishments to be arbitrary. As it is, they are equal.



The applied 'punishment' is equal the effects it has in diffrent cases isn't. It's 'Strange and unusual' punishment is some cases , negative isk, or you fly free (if you mange to break even).

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#59 - 2011-12-22 14:21:07 UTC
I will also add to this thread that one should not be allowed to biomass a pilot with a negative isk balance to get around this issue Twisted


Slade
Junglistbeast
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2011-12-22 15:26:45 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
Oh the market just gives you isk out of thin air now. No you needed the isk for investment. Biomassing perhaps an exsaduration but you certainly would need to grind up 250M isk to break even, while I would still be laughing all the way to bank.

Obviously you don't seem to care how fair the justice system is ie. does it have the same effect in all cases, and choose to remain ignorant to the idea it could effect difffrent people in diffrent ways, such is your right.

It seems you are asking for punishments to be arbitrary. As it is, they are equal.



The applied 'punishment' is equal the effects it has in diffrent cases isn't. It's 'Strange and unusual' punishment is some cases , negative isk, or you fly free (if you mange to break even).



I'm going to offer you a medal for pointing out the blindingly obvious!

If the missioning player pulled his finger out and made more he also would have had a positive balance!

I think you should maybe study trading skills before you talk about how much isk you need to make buy/sell orders up!