EVE General Discussion

Hi bro how about you read the thread and realize that broadcasting hasn't been a point of contention for at least 100 pages.....

Right now you can be banned for doing anything too quickly or in a manner that gives you an "unfair advantage" which could be construed to include things such as having a neutral repper, OGB, etc. That's why CCP isn't giving us anything clear because they know they are just banning based on feelings and psssshhhh... In that vein EFT and such all give an unfair advantage over a person who hasn't been exposed to those programs/web sites.

If you couldn't beat a multiboxer fleet with an equal sized/ship fleet then you were being lead by a really bad FC. It doesn't take much to screw the old isboxer fleets. Old repeater based isboxers only had the advantage when you fought them on their terms. Which frankly if you did that then in my view you deserved to lose.

I would like to add a few things to this conversation.


Comparing the high end repeater based isboxed incursion fleets to a PUG is just silly (clearly you're not talking about all the slow isboxers). That would be like comparing ISN's bling fleet with a PUG. The difference in isk being fielded is massive. At my peak I ran 9 NMs 1 Nestor like at least one other boxer I knew. I was able to do 5 minute tick to tick OTAs (perfect spawns etc) and the other fellow was faster than me (he'd hit mid/high 4 minute when everything was perfect and he was hustling). That's about on par with a blinged player fleet if not a bit slower.

My fleet consisted of 9 NMs at a cost of 4.3 billion isk EACH. The nestor was cheaper at 3.6 billion isk. Total ISK value of just the NMs and Nestor was about 42.3 billion isk. I also used a venture for ore dropping and of course a perfect booster.

It should be clear at this point that my NMs had almost no tank and relied on pure DPS to clear sites before incoming damage became a problem. I ran with 2x warp speed rigs on the nms and 1x warp speed rig on the nestor. This made me very VERY vulnerable to gankers, ECM, lag spikes, power outages etc. I mentioned power outage because I lost 3 ships (13b isk) one time due to a sudden loss of power. There's a million different things that can cause you to lose isk when solo boxing an incursion fleet. I know this because I've lost ships to many of them. The most frustrating losses are those connected to lag spikes between Eve's servers and me.

In theory when everything was absolutely perfect I could do up to 1.2b an hour (100m an hour per account). Keep in mind I couldn't stop to take a drink or even think of chatting if I wanted to achieve that rate. I also couldn't have any fleets fighting for sites or be in an incursion system with lots of long warps. This of course excludes time spent converting LP, moving the fleet, setting up the fleet, and twenty other things I am forgetting about that cost me time when I tried to run incursions.



In comparison my current fleet is dirt cheap. One of my old NMs would pay for the majority of my ships that I'm using now. Running in windowed mode I have my site times down to 6-9 minutes tick to tick. I'm still improving on my control so I see room for better results. I also ran a WAY toned down version of my nm fleet with 8 nms and 2 nestors but the site times on that comp is about 8-10 minutes. Those times are from fastest to slowest OTA NMC NCO. NCO is pretty brutal for my NMs to do right now.


Incursions were a decent source of income but at least half my isk was made via other means (in-spite of me putting A LOT of time into incursion running). I mostly did incursions for the challenge and the fun of tweaking setups to maximize effectiveness. The amount of theory crafting in fleet comp/build combined with the endless hours of tweaking my isboxer setup made it something worth doing. If I wanted to grind isk I would find a nice WH to setup in or do extra time on the market side of things.

It's done using Windows Aero, so the fact that CCP has the gall to claim it breaks 6A2 is hilarious, unless CCP recently bought out Microsoft and we didn't notice.

Well there's multiple ways to set up a screen. I suggest watching a few of the videos on the dual-boxing forums. Versi is probably the guy who uses VideoFX to it's fullest potential (so far) in EVE, and he does a good job explaining it in his videos.

dxNothing.exe is a separate program that does not interact with the EVE client.

I might be so inclined to agree with you if one of these multiple things wasn't happening: One, CCP is currently working on a program that imitates ISBOXER's video FX layout and indeed is supporting it as a third party program. The second thing is that CCP currently allows for the player to resize any window (exefile or in-game wondow),that's changing the way the information is presented and changing the way that the player interacts with a client. Furthermore, the nebulous use and meaning of "how the game is played" can be construed to limit a player from any number of activities, including ganking and scamming. It is nothing short of a "we get to tell you how you can play the game" clause and should be taken with a grain of salt whenever it is cited as it can be viewed as "We have no real argument against that but we still want to ban it".

Additionally, you can force Windows to have "alt tab" cycle through instead of switch between A and B.

Like you said Video FX is a visual enhancement. Does not change the game play at all.

http://isboxer.com/wiki/DxNothing
http://isboxer.com/wiki/Video_FX

My set up. I click the launch monitor 1 opens the main character then on monitor 2 it will load the dxnothing with 10 windows versions of the clients in a nice order so i can see it. The video FX side makes it to were i can interact with all windows.
Everything those to things offer can be done 100% with windows applications. Video FX and DXNothing do not effect the client directly it only affects the window its told to effect.


Think of Video FX and the DxNothing as PIP (Picture in Picture) on your TV.

I'm trying to figure out the logic behind CCP's rulings. I'll leave it to others to pick apart the logic.

The second part of Section 6A2 basically states that if you change the way our game plays, then we'll ban you. The thing about setting up the windows carefully and Alt-Tabbing, even setting up that trick your talking about, is that there is no outside software involved (the OS does not count), and a player has to interact with 13 distinct Windows (not 12, I failed at maths ). In the video I watched, I saw 13 ships being controlled by interacting with only 2 windows. So is the rule that each ship requires its own window or you get banned?

I can even see how CCP detects for that. The ISBoxer process (ISBoxer.dll is how it shows up, I think) operates in the EVE client's memory space. If they can also detect dxNothing.exe running, then they would know someone is running multiple ships from one dxNothing window.

If what I just typed is how CCP is thinking, are there any holes? Like dxNothing.exe can be running even when there is no dxNothing window being used?

dxNothing doesn't touch any other file other than Windows Aero and innerspace.
dxNothing can be running even if no VideoFX is being used, correct.

The problem with the "each ship has it's own window" argument is that people have no obligation to purchase multiple monitors. One of the boxers used to 10-box PVP by simple alt-tab, and Super and Titan pilots sure aren't going to be happy if CCP tells them they can't use multiple toons without multiple monitors.