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Dev blog: UI Modernization - Icon Strategy

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Isamo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#181 - 2015-02-28 18:43:35 UTC
Hello, :-)

ist es den Machern schon so langweilig in Island?
Erfindet doch mal neue Satzzeichen!

Euer Isamo
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#182 - 2015-02-28 19:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: BeanBagKing
http://i.imgur.com/D4iKpYR.png

See the above image. You can see that I have a battlecruiser and cruiser both locked (NPC variants of Moa and Ferox respectively). Can't tell the difference... I think this is a bug since the battlecruiser is supposed to have the little dit below it.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#183 - 2015-02-28 20:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
I would also like to see new icons for the numerous types of asteroids, ice chunks and gas that are in the belts and pockets.

I would also think that a new skill called "Target Caller" should be created. The Target Caller skill would allow the pilot to see which ships were actually what types of ships based upon their Ship Type Bonus. Once the appropriate level of skill had been learned a new icon would appear in the Overview and on the screen

Target Caller Basic

Level 1 - Frigates and Destroyers - 10 day train time
Level 2 - Cruisers - 15 day train time
Level 3 - Battlecruisers - 20 day train time
Level 4 - Battleships - 25 day train time
Level 5 - Tactical Destroyers to T2 - 30 day train time

Target Caller Expert

Level 1 - Frigates and Destroyers - 3 day train time
Level 2 - Cruisers, Strategic Cruisers - 5 day train time
Level 3 - Battlecruisers - 10 day train time
Level 4 - Battleships - 15 day train time
Level 5 - Capital Ships


For example a pilot with the Target Caller Basic skill trained to Level 1 would see icons for ships such as the Maulus that would have the same icon for Dampening Drones except the icon would instead be a Frigate on their Overviews and on their screen.

With pilots not losing skill points any longer new skills should be added to balance the skill learning.
Yuri Pyrrhus
Slavic Totem
Can i bring my Drake...
#184 - 2015-02-28 20:52:31 UTC
So, here is summary of my personal suggestions about icons:
1. As industrial ships are usually associated with peaceful work so IMHO their icons (except for a shuttle) should be "blunt", not "sharp-pointed". This will help with recognition at a glance, I think.
2. As I mentioned before in this topic, I'm suggesting to make player icons hollow like it's now in the game and NPC icons make filled and without "+" on the side, so remains the present distinction "hollow, just border icon"=player, "filled icon"=NPC.
3. And a small suggestion about pod: make it more like egg.
Some examples of icons:
Picture
4. For drones I'm suggesting to recognize the size of a drone by additional features than by size of icon and the type of a drone to indicate within icon.
Some examples of icons:
Picture
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#185 - 2015-02-28 21:51:04 UTC
Jason Dunham wrote:
I asked for this when the ship identification system first came out. I thought it was a shame that the great icons you spent time on weren't being used in game. I've always felt that npc icons should have some relation to player icons so that new players would have an easier time relating the two.

I'd like to point out that currently the "brackets" in the overview give no information at all, so if someone doesn't want to learn the new symbols, they will not be any worse off. But for those of us that will learn it, it will provide more information at a glance. Shape identification happens much faster than reading.

I'm a huge fan of the drone icons especially. In engagements with smaller ships engaging your enemies drones can be pivotal in turning the battle. These changes would make it easier to identify what kind of drones are on field and where they are being directed. For example, you engage an enemy fleet and then observe them drop sets of ecm drones that fly towards your logi. You would see this all from a glance rather than having to hover over the small, moving brackets of the drones to identify their type, or worse, load an overview with drones and sort through all the drones on field.

For me the important thing is that currently icons give very little information, so a change will allow more information to be received at a glance, which I think is a vast improvement. And if you don't like the added complexity, you don't have to use it. You can still look at the ship's name in the overview or mouse over the drones, etc.

My only concern was that the icons were readable, which I think the screenshot shows that they are.

Overall I believe this is a fantastically executed ui change that will allow skilled players to see more information about what's on field than they have before. It's similar to having different graphics for different turrets, a skilled player can look at their enemy and see what turrets or launchers they have fit.

So you believe you are going to "at a glance" tell what sort of drones are being sent toward your logi, by looking at these icons in space?
I'm sorry but am going to call Bull **** to that.
The icons will be so small on anything but the largest of monitors, you will be peering at them to tell one from the other.

- - - - - - - - - - -
Just for interest sake I showed the new icons and UI to an Ophthalmologist I know. Her professional opinion; Shapes are all too similar and will cause eye strain with prolonged use, Don't spend any more than 1 or 2 hours a day exposed to these.
Her suggestion for safe use for me, (an older guy with not so good eyesight), 20 to 30 mins then go and do something else for a few hours.

It will be many years before I can even consider a 4K monitor (unless someone is giving them away) so it seems my play time in eve is about to be further reduced. I love eve but am not going to up the chances of my eyesight being effected more than it needs to be.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#186 - 2015-02-28 22:20:20 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
It will be many years before I can even consider a 4K monitor (unless someone is giving them away) so it seems my play time in eve is about to be further reduced. I love eve but am not going to up the chances of my eyesight being effected more than it needs to be.
It is about the technology curve!
"Why we have icons now for 4K monitors and we are working on the Occulas Rift but before you know it, we can plug you in and you won't need eyes! So, have no fear, just use those eyes up for now, before they become obsolete!" TwistedP

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#187 - 2015-02-28 22:30:21 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
It will be many years before I can even consider a 4K monitor (unless someone is giving them away) so it seems my play time in eve is about to be further reduced. I love eve but am not going to up the chances of my eyesight being effected more than it needs to be.
It is about the technology curve!
"Why we have icons now for 4K monitors and we are working on the Occulas Rift but before you know it, we can plug you in and you won't need eyes! So, have no fear, just use those eyes up for now, before they become obsolete!" TwistedP

Seriously, you want make a joke out of a genuine concern?
I'm not a millionaire, I survive week to week on disability after a work accident. For the last 7 years Eve has been a life line for me and it is being taken away for the sake of technology that won't be available to the masses for years.

Joke away, I hope you never end up in my situation because believe me, there is nothing funny about it..

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#188 - 2015-02-28 22:52:13 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
It will be many years before I can even consider a 4K monitor (unless someone is giving them away) so it seems my play time in eve is about to be further reduced. I love eve but am not going to up the chances of my eyesight being effected more than it needs to be.
It is about the technology curve!
"Why we have icons now for 4K monitors and we are working on the Occulas Rift but before you know it, we can plug you in and you won't need eyes! So, have no fear, just use those eyes up for now, before they become obsolete!" TwistedP

Seriously, you want make a joke out of a genuine concern?
I'm not a millionaire, I survive week to week on disability after a work accident. For the last 7 years Eve has been a life line for me and it is being taken away for the sake of technology that won't be available to the masses for years.

Joke away, I hope you never end up in my situation because believe me, there is nothing funny about it..
I come from Zimbabwe, if you do not have a dark sense of humour you commit suicide.

I am on the following:
1920x1080 screen (pretty cheap these days)
GT 630 Nvidiot
4 GB RAM
Some old 3 GHz 2 core processor.

The core machine cost 40 pounds. Oh and I am wearing glasses for a stigmatism and being short sighted (the latter probably from staring at a screen too long, especially those old CRTs).

Sometimes a joke can be the best way to get a message across, I said the same things for years and was hated for it but one day I found George Carlin and there were people paying him for the same opinion because he wrapped it in jokes.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2015-02-28 23:07:40 UTC
Dots for icons... my goodness. At least crosses used the full height and width of their allocated dimensions.

I get that you're trying to make EVE look better, but... just like how ships have different size classes, ships have their own group as a whole, and their icons need more continuity than diamonds... not more complexity.

Would it have been so bad to make player ships crosses as well as NPCs, but with different colors by standings (or something)?

Your icon designer(s) is fantastic, and their craft is top-notch. But they need better direction for these things / it's not their fault.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#190 - 2015-03-01 00:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Castelo Selva wrote:
Do not worried about the wining people. It is natural to people be against any change, and in special when that change take then out of they comfort zone. It was the same with the neocon icons and now people just get used to it.
So what you're saying is that you haven't actually read any of the feedback, and instead stupidly believe in the laughably idiotic myth of “being against change”?

Yeah, no. That's not what's happening. Instead, people are being very explicit about why these new things will not work, same as the NeoCom — which, had you actually had a clue, you would have noticed that people have not gotten used to. These comments come from the perspective of what the icons are meant to (but fail to) do; from the perspective of good UI design; from the perspective of actual in-game use; and from the perspective of actual player use-cases.

You are the only one suggesting that they are “bad” because they are new. Everyone else is suggesting that they are bad because they lack functionality.

Quote:
Colour code would be nice, […]

Also, I personally think an increase of 33% in the size of the icon would be better, or at least an option to make the icons bigger would be nice.
The first one isn't “nice” — it's mandatory, but there is no telling how they are supposed to make that work like the current icons without making them pointless, since that information will just overwrite the icon and make it both impossible to distinguish from its near-cousins, and even more easy to lose in a cluttered environment (and no, that image is not a cluttered environment — that's how bad it is under the best of circumstances). The “information at a glance” the current icons give you goes right out the window and is replaced by “information at a careful, close squint”.

The latter is flat-out impossible without massively reducing the already poor utility of the icons. If they can't fit in a 18×18px grid, they have simply cannot serve their purpose. Increasing them to 26×26px is out of the question, and isn't a solution to the core problem anyway. It is not hard to make icons that fit within that small grid; if the design requires them to be bigger, the design is fundamentally flawed and need to be re-done.



Oh, and the entire 4k argument is bone-headed to begin with. People don't run higher resolutions to see the same amount of stuff on the screen — they run higher resolutions to see more. If the icons are adjusted so that all you get is status quo, then there's no point in adjusting the icons. If anything, that higher resolution menas there's more reason than ever to simplify the icons so they can be seen more easily — not to make them more complex.

I run EVE at 5k and 90% scaling because that way I get the most out of my screen real-estate. The notion that this resolution needs to be “supported” by icons that are so indistinct and complicated that they have to be enlarged — that I'm rewarded for having so much screen space by having less information displayed — is so backwards that it beggars belief.

Do we need new overview/bracket icons to match new hardware and to update the UI? Sure. The correct route to take to do that is one of increased simplification and clarity. I.e. the exact opposite of what the designers have chosen here.
RavenNyx
Tax 'n Death
#191 - 2015-03-01 02:47:16 UTC
Ok, this probably ends up unread, but...

TL;DR: The changes are not really thought through, and they will not benefit the players - arguments can be made that they might add complexity.

The TL part on its own:

Consistency; there's a big lack of consistency in the changes

  • Titans get their own icon, but super carriers do not
  • Fighters and fighter bombers get seperate icons, while their launch-platforms do not
  • Drones get a full matrix of icons marking individual drones as specific e-war types, etc., while the player ships do not
  • One icon for industrials and mining barges, while mining frigates get their own icon
  • POS icons for e-war etc. are apparently NOT done in this iteration (seperate icon for same e-war as drones)
  • No role, function or purpose for ships are reflected in their icons (bar titan, dreadnought and shuttle)

These icons adequately follows the market-groups, so I'm guessing that's where the inspiration comes from. Problem is though, that whomever thought out the division of icons, can't have played the game for long... F.ex. titans and super carriers are often referred to with the joint term "supers" by players, so one icon for those two ship-/hull-classes would more closely reflect what the players are experiencing (though I'd personally like them as separate icons as they have two different roles). Then drones; the icons used for e-war drones, utility drones, etc. does NOT match or in any way resemble the icons of the effects experienced by players under their influence. No player will be able to match the effect seen above the capacitor and directly apply that to the overview to "remove" it, no, the player needs to translate it, just as it is today. And... This change also adds an icon for fighter bombers and one for fighters, even though there are no separate carrier-class for super carriers? Why are drones important enough to explode into separate categories, when the ships using them are not? Also these several icons for the same thing. Ex. now a web-drone have one "image", the POS module another and the player experiences a third image of the effect; judging by the presented material, CCP plans to KEEP it that way, with an ADDED representation of the effect?! I can't see how adding more stuff, would cut down on complexity.

Usage; what use will the new icons have

  • PvP: a faction frigate can be more powerful than a T1 destroyer
  • PvE: an incursion frigate is way more powerful than a cruiser from a level 2 mission

The icon of something tells you NOTHING of what to expect from it. Best possible outcome would be players judging threat-levels by the size of the icons (as it is now) and just treating this change as eye-candy (if you like it).


Looking at your screenshot, it's looking like looking at a "deathstar" POS with all brackets on, where you really need to scan your overview for the names of the modules, rather than looking at the icons in the overview/brackets/space (or just follow the broadcasts). This alone should make CCP vary of adding to many icon types. Also, you've been sitting on this information for years, had thousands of different player experiences to ask for, on how a multitude of icons where received by players; why not use that information before (and maybe even instead of) redesigning from scratch?

Also, using the same shape for two very distinct (and very often totally separated) activities in EvE (PvE and PvP)... . F.ex. take a look a traffic signs. They have very distinctive shapes based on what purpose they serve. The current way of telling PvE and PvP apart is good - please don't sacrifice the current easy identifying features in the holy name of "modernization". And the reason for the "+" on the icons... Well, to me it seems to be an afterthought that can't really be explained to be anything else than that. That very small amount of pixels that make up that "+" are the ones that should tell me if I'm about to get ganked in my DED complex, FW plex, mission, if I just jumped into a gate-camp or if it's just rats on the gate? And with me, the special snowflake with several windowed instances of EvE open, along with third party tools? Well, that doesn't leave many pixels for that little cross...


So, in my conclusion, these changes will either not affect anything and just be eye-candy (for those who haven't turned it off), or add complexity to a critical place in an already complex game. Please don't... Or at least let select "classic icons" somewhere in the menu.
Verskon Qaual
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#192 - 2015-03-01 03:07:15 UTC
CCP UI Modernization Project == 1978 Space Invaders

Modernization indeed

Not that I use the UI much when I imagine EVE IS REAL

http://imgur.com/XwkyLI5
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#193 - 2015-03-01 08:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
RavenNyx wrote:
(...) Or at least let select "classic icons" somewhere in the menu.


Sic EVE, sic CCP. What changes, changes, want it or don't, as the old is removed to give way to the new, and there is no opt out.

So we ended up with a new GUI which, thanks God, can have all the transparency and blurr and effects turned off with a single slider, and yet keeps icons which are sistematically mistaken (I *still* open the wallet when I wanted the market, and vice-versa) and some icons just never are where you want them (the tiny Rifter in a circle haves a life of its own and I just can't learn where it is because I can't see it without leaning forward and squinting).

Now it's the time for icons, some of which I can tell with certain difficulty from 20 centimeters away from the screen, but all them are funny triangular blurrs from my usal 40 centimeters. And yet even from 20 cms, the fastest way to find out which ship is which is the overview, where the relative size can be compared: larger can be told from smaller when they are displayed together.

So, you will not keep the crosses. I won't neither, despite they're enough for my needs as I can easily tell small from fat from thin, to the point that I NEVER noticed how I learned to use them, I just did it: that's something a good interface does. So we will not get anything like Tippia's proposal because it wasn't CCP's idea when they started thinking of the new GUI; and at the end of day, when Scylla hits, we will be left with a GUI that will force us to bear with it and learn to tell the useless clutter from the actual information. And it will not be something we would had asked if we had a voice in the process, rather whatever CCP thought on its own, with expertise but without a clue.

Sic EVE, sic CCP: we endure them.
Quadima
HyperDreams Studios
#194 - 2015-03-01 09:20:08 UTC
I belive that all CCP personnel is tired of working on this game and they f*ck it up as much as they can so everyone quits, they go bankrupt and they can finally start doing something fun with their lives !

Because most of the updates in the last year since the "rapid update cycle" seem to be cr*p rushed into production without even thinking of the consequences.

... in the end, it all turns into gray goo.
Parmenionas
New Eden Times News and Media Agency
#195 - 2015-03-01 10:09:36 UTC
Icons remind me more and more of the Arcade games Gataga, Phoenix and Space Invaders, and that is a good thing. Big smile
Agonising Ecstacy
Chaos Army
#196 - 2015-03-01 10:43:57 UTC
Been waiting for this since I started playing in 2006 - but the overall effect isn't what I thought it would be.

In the overview - its perfect.

In space though, it detracts from the view. I think with only 3 red crosses, my brain could filter them out - and the view of space was primary, the icons were an annotation - an additional information layer. With the 40 different icons in space - the icons BECOME the image, the 3D render just forms a swirly background. It was an unexpected result.

I would like to have the icons in space *much* less prevalent - reduce their opacity (a lot). Get rid of the 4 white dots/triangles that make it look so busy, and have the opacity increase on either mouse rollover, mouse proximity, or increase towards the center of the screen - so that what you are looking at 'pops' out. The "available information density" stays the same, but you are opting to consume only what you're interested in (because your looking at it)

Anyhow - great work, needs iterating :)

SK
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#197 - 2015-03-01 11:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Jason Dunham wrote:
I asked for this when the ship identification system first came out. I thought it was a shame that the great icons you spent time on weren't being used in game. I've always felt that npc icons should have some relation to player icons so that new players would have an easier time relating the two.

I'd like to point out that currently the "brackets" in the overview give no information at all, so if someone doesn't want to learn the new symbols, they will not be any worse off. But for those of us that will learn it, it will provide more information at a glance. Shape identification happens much faster than reading.

I'm a huge fan of the drone icons especially. In engagements with smaller ships engaging your enemies drones can be pivotal in turning the battle. These changes would make it easier to identify what kind of drones are on field and where they are being directed. For example, you engage an enemy fleet and then observe them drop sets of ecm drones that fly towards your logi. You would see this all from a glance rather than having to hover over the small, moving brackets of the drones to identify their type, or worse, load an overview with drones and sort through all the drones on field.

For me the important thing is that currently icons give very little information, so a change will allow more information to be received at a glance, which I think is a vast improvement. And if you don't like the added complexity, you don't have to use it. You can still look at the ship's name in the overview or mouse over the drones, etc.

My only concern was that the icons were readable, which I think the screenshot shows that they are.

Overall I believe this is a fantastically executed ui change that will allow skilled players to see more information about what's on field than they have before. It's similar to having different graphics for different turrets, a skilled player can look at their enemy and see what turrets or launchers they have fit.

So you believe you are going to "at a glance" tell what sort of drones are being sent toward your logi, by looking at these icons in space?
I'm sorry but am going to call Bull **** to that.
The icons will be so small on anything but the largest of monitors, you will be peering at them to tell one from the other.

- - - - - - - - - - -
Just for interest sake I showed the new icons and UI to an Ophthalmologist I know. Her professional opinion; Shapes are all too similar and will cause eye strain with prolonged use, Don't spend any more than 1 or 2 hours a day exposed to these.
Her suggestion for safe use for me, (an older guy with not so good eyesight), 20 to 30 mins then go and do something else for a few hours.

It will be many years before I can even consider a 4K monitor (unless someone is giving them away) so it seems my play time in eve is about to be further reduced. I love eve but am not going to up the chances of my eyesight being effected more than it needs to be.


Ok If we are getting to the point where medical professionals are stating that prolonged exposure will do physical harm, then this is not acceptable.

Before this goes any further, and is "tweaked" before release. It may be a sensible idea to run this past legal.

Note:- as a consumer and NOT a medical professional, it is BLINDINGLY obvious that I cannot see them without eye strain.

If the player base taking medical advice, warns of the physical consequences, prior to release, and it is Ignored, or played down in importance, then it will be very hard to claim ignorance of the effect on players health when The lawyers get hold of it!

Hint- you might want to ask legal about EU disability regulations, regarding requirements relating to provision of a service, as well.........

Edit:- really sorry to have to point this out, but better now than later. I feel desperately sorry for your art team, Their work is lovely and imaginative. Unfortunately the physical realities of life have to take priority, and I hope their good work can be retained in some way, whilst preserving players eyesight.
I, and I am sure, we all, wish them every success.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#198 - 2015-03-01 12:41:39 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Jason Dunham wrote:
I asked for this when the ship identification system first came out. I thought it was a shame that the great icons you spent time on weren't being used in game. I've always felt that npc icons should have some relation to player icons so that new players would have an easier time relating the two.

I'd like to point out that currently the "brackets" in the overview give no information at all, so if someone doesn't want to learn the new symbols, they will not be any worse off. But for those of us that will learn it, it will provide more information at a glance. Shape identification happens much faster than reading.

I'm a huge fan of the drone icons especially. In engagements with smaller ships engaging your enemies drones can be pivotal in turning the battle. These changes would make it easier to identify what kind of drones are on field and where they are being directed. For example, you engage an enemy fleet and then observe them drop sets of ecm drones that fly towards your logi. You would see this all from a glance rather than having to hover over the small, moving brackets of the drones to identify their type, or worse, load an overview with drones and sort through all the drones on field.

For me the important thing is that currently icons give very little information, so a change will allow more information to be received at a glance, which I think is a vast improvement. And if you don't like the added complexity, you don't have to use it. You can still look at the ship's name in the overview or mouse over the drones, etc.

My only concern was that the icons were readable, which I think the screenshot shows that they are.

Overall I believe this is a fantastically executed ui change that will allow skilled players to see more information about what's on field than they have before. It's similar to having different graphics for different turrets, a skilled player can look at their enemy and see what turrets or launchers they have fit.

So you believe you are going to "at a glance" tell what sort of drones are being sent toward your logi, by looking at these icons in space?
I'm sorry but am going to call Bull **** to that.
The icons will be so small on anything but the largest of monitors, you will be peering at them to tell one from the other.

- - - - - - - - - - -
Just for interest sake I showed the new icons and UI to an Ophthalmologist I know. Her professional opinion; Shapes are all too similar and will cause eye strain with prolonged use, Don't spend any more than 1 or 2 hours a day exposed to these.
Her suggestion for safe use for me, (an older guy with not so good eyesight), 20 to 30 mins then go and do something else for a few hours.

It will be many years before I can even consider a 4K monitor (unless someone is giving them away) so it seems my play time in eve is about to be further reduced. I love eve but am not going to up the chances of my eyesight being effected more than it needs to be.


Ok If we are getting to the point where medical professionals are stating that prolonged exposure will do physical harm, then this is not acceptable.

Before this goes any further, and is "tweaked" before release. It may be a sensible idea to run this past legal.

Note:- as a consumer and NOT a medical professional, it is BLINDINGLY obvious that I cannot see them without eye strain.

If the player base taking medical advice, warns of the physical consequences, prior to release, and it is Ignored, or played down in importance, then it will be very hard to claim ignorance of the effect on players health when The lawyers get hold of it!

Hint- you might want to ask legal about EU disability regulations, regarding requirements relating to provision of a service, as well.........


Will point out...

... playing EVE is not a job.
... Iceland is not a member state of the EU
... the warp tunnel effect was release untouched albeit it caused motion sickness to some CCP personnel who tried it before release.
... there's no option to not see the warp tunnel, and many players just learned to ignore it even after it was trimmed into beiing more benign

Drawn your own conclussions about the new icon system... When I said we "endure" CCP and EVE, I was being litheral.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#199 - 2015-03-01 12:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Jason Dunham wrote:
I asked for this when the ship identification system first came out. I thought it was a shame that the great icons you spent time on weren't being used in game. I've always felt that npc icons should have some relation to player icons so that new players would have an easier time relating the two.

I'd like to point out that currently the "brackets" in the overview give no information at all, so if someone doesn't want to learn the new symbols, they will not be any worse off. But for those of us that will learn it, it will provide more information at a glance. Shape identification happens much faster than reading.

I'm a huge fan of the drone icons especially. In engagements with smaller ships engaging your enemies drones can be pivotal in turning the battle. These changes would make it easier to identify what kind of drones are on field and where they are being directed. For example, you engage an enemy fleet and then observe them drop sets of ecm drones that fly towards your logi. You would see this all from a glance rather than having to hover over the small, moving brackets of the drones to identify their type, or worse, load an overview with drones and sort through all the drones on field.

For me the important thing is that currently icons give very little information, so a change will allow more information to be received at a glance, which I think is a vast improvement. And if you don't like the added complexity, you don't have to use it. You can still look at the ship's name in the overview or mouse over the drones, etc.

My only concern was that the icons were readable, which I think the screenshot shows that they are.

Overall I believe this is a fantastically executed ui change that will allow skilled players to see more information about what's on field than they have before. It's similar to having different graphics for different turrets, a skilled player can look at their enemy and see what turrets or launchers they have fit.

So you believe you care going to "at a glance" tell what sort of drones are being sent toward your logi, by looking at these icons in space?
I'm sorry but am going to call Bull **** to that.
The icons will be so small on anything but the largest of monitors, you will be peering at them to tell one from the other.

- - - - - - - - - - -
Just for interest sake I showed the new icons and UI to an Ophthalmologist I know. Her professional opinion; Shapes are all too similar and will cause eye strain with prolonged use, Don't spend any more than 1 or 2 hours a day exposed to these.
Her suggestion for safe use for me, (an older guy with not so good eyesight), 20 to 30 mins then go and do something else for a few hours.

It will be many years before I can even consider a 4K monitor (unless someone is giving them away) so it seems my play time in eve is about to be further reduced. I love eve but am not going to up the chances of my eyesight being effected more than it needs to be.


Ok If we are getting to the point where medical professionals are stating that prolonged exposure will do physical harm, then this is not acceptable.

Before this goes any further, and is "tweaked" before release. It may be a sensible idea to run this past legal.

Note:- as a consumer and NOT a medical professional, it is BLINDINGLY obvious that I cannot see them without eye strain.

If the player base taking medical advice, warns of the physical consequences, prior to release, and it is Ignored, or played down in importance, then it will be very hard to claim ignorance of the effect on players health when The lawyers get hold of it!

Hint- you might want to ask legal about EU disability regulations, regarding requirements relating to provision of a service, as well.........


Will point out...

... playing EVE is not a job.
... Iceland is not a member state of the EU
... the warp tunnel effect was release untouched albeit it caused motion sickness to some CCP personnel who tried it before release.
... there's no option to not see the warp tunnel, and many players just learned to ignore it even after it was trimmed into beiing more benign

Drawn your own conclussions about the new icon system... When I said we "endure" CCP and EVE, I was being litheral.


You are seriously underestimating the effect and power of EU law, ask microsoft how that worked out for them.

Of course CCP could choose to host it's servers outside the EU, and choose not to permit EU residents to purchase either the game or subscriptions.

CCP, will probably, after having a 5 second "chat" to the tea boy in legal, realise just how bad an idea that is, hell, even the quafe machine will have more sense. Ignoring issues with potential legal consequences is not a good idea for ANY company.


The issues have been pointed out. Let CCP discuss things with the legal professionals that they employ.
And act according to their, and everyone's best interests.

I do not, and cannot prejudge the advice given either by CCP legal's professionals, or any optical consultants reports they may or may not choose to commission.

But I would imagine they will make an informed decision either way, and not rely on "phew! We got away with that this time" as a long term business plan.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#200 - 2015-03-01 13:55:54 UTC
Wow.... the dev stated he would probably be up all night reading and responding to feedback Thursday night... yeah, that apparently went real well and he didn't last very long, or got scared off by the sheer number of people telling him it is really poorly implemented to the point where they haven't bothered with this thread since.

Anyhoo, further I've noticed that in cases of player ships, quite a lot of the time from a distance I can identify the ship hull through the bracket (because it is open and not a solid block) whereas the new icons in a lot of cases completely block out the ship itself, therefore sending me to the overview list to get the information I would have otherwise been able to gather. This is someone counter to having an improved UI, it should at the very least maintain the current information level, be better looking, and quicker to distinguish. But this is not, tries to give way too much information (ie 27 separate drone icons), is not better looking, and takes more time to distinguish due to insignificant differences.